Co-op Mission Update - Artanis Revamp

Co-op Missions Discussion
Prev 1 7 8 9 Next
04/14/2018 10:06 PMPosted by SniperJoe
So when are these changes going live?

They're not live now right?
For some reason SC2 editor data was already updated to reflect the changes to Artanis, Raynor and Swann. Unless it's a mistake on their side, this could indicate that the patch is going live very soon.
Hi,

So I am playing CoOp here in Europe for about one, one and a half, year now. I have read nearly every discussion here, and now I want to say something:
Glory of the Daelaam...
This one is not up to date.

We have Nova and Dehaka with the same ability right from the start. This one set as a lvl 15 ability is just not right. Please consider to change this one to something that has an impact and is nearly as powerful as other lvl15 Upgrades and something that is NOT a thing others have just from the start.

Thank you.
Not every commander needs to be the same. Artanis got his guardian shell earlier on. Would you like to exchange it with glory?
04/17/2018 10:37 AMPosted by Uli

Glory of the Daelaam...
This one is not up to date.

Some level 15 upgrades are less useful than others, but commanders don't have to balance on a level-by-level basis. (Not saying that Artanis balances on a holistic basis either, mind.)

With Glory of the Daelaam I feel the opposite to you. I see the problem more as Dehaka not needing a freebie Glory whatsoever. Nova at least has the excuse that she has a small supply cap, but with Dehaka I have this vibe that his free supply is more about them not deciding on what to replace the Overlord with. It's like how his old Zergling mining was probably because at one point they weren't sure Primal Zerg should thematically have Drones.

Artanis's Glory isn't an amazing ability, but I also don't like that it's been unnecessarily given away to Dehaka. Maybe I'd say the same about Nova too, if I'm honest, if I didn't mainly play her.
Just read the patch release;
Sigh... well seems like they didn't listen to what literally everyone in the forum wanted.
The Dragoon still sucks, and now it sucks even more than before against anything not armoured, since the attack upgrade bonus was changed from +2 per level to +1(+3 vs armored)
I just had a game as Artanis; here are my thoughts on the change:

  • The improved Shield Overcharge ability is great; it's a step up from the previous versions.
  • The Orbital Strike UI change is still an annoyance; would like to see it gone as a QOL change.
  • High Templar are a great camping option now; if you are able to get right on top of the enemy spawns, you can take them out almost as fast as Raynor's spidermines.
  • That being said, they are still pretty squishy when too far in front. I wouldn't be opposed to changing their attack range to 9 or something just so they are even further away from the action.
  • Mobility is still a pain point for Artanis, and removing my points from the speed increase mastery makes it even more blatant.
Wow, I just read the patch notes. I am incredibly disappointed that they completely ignored the community feedback about the Dragoon. It makes me wonder if they even bothered reading and testing changes like giving them their attack speed from SC1 (1.26 instead of 2.0) and making them the same collision size and movement speed as the Stalker. I don't know if it was laziness or stubbornness, but sticking to their original plan when there were such well supported other ideas the community preferred just makes me sad... especially since they listened to community feedback about many other issues and gave other units way bigger buffs.

The biggest issue for Artanis that I hoped would be addressed was making the Dragoon, currently one of the clunkiest and weakest units in all of Co-op, be as good as it was in SC1 (no other SC1 unit that I can think of was actually made worse in its SC2 Campaign and Co-op form) and bringing it up to at least close to the power level of similar ranged ground options for other commanders like Marines, Hydras, Goliaths, Adepts, etc. The buff they chose instead, which is actually a nerf against anything not Armored, will not fix the Dragoon's issues of clunkiness and weakness and just makes them overlap even more with Immortals... so I will continue not making Dragoons pretty much ever, and I imagine most Co-op players who know what their doing won't either.

To be honest, I was looking forward to maybe actually playing some Artanis for a change... the other Artanis buffs weren't huge, but were exciting enough to at least try if Dragoons were brought up to par. But now I doubt I'll use him much if at all, and just keep playing other commanders that are still way stronger.
Post patch feedback.

Love most of the changes... altho I do feel that perhaps the archon gas cost is still a bit high (unable to get/keep more than a few up at a time, while still building other army units (I did a mixed composition, 2 reavers+Upgrades, 6 immortals+upgrades, a few phoenixes which kept dying+their 2 upgrades..etc etc)... whereas some other commanders aren't as gas starved in the late game from just getting their upgrades.

And of course, I still wish archons just had a passive shield regeneration aura, so as to not be forced to just storm your own army as a heal.

One thing I do think was missed is.. the starting/max SoA energy mastery. I still don't use it, and still don't need it or want it at all. I get 50 energy every 3 minutes (180seconds) the same as the shield overcharge(SO) CD. any time after SO comes off CD is spare energy that can be used for strikes..

A consideration; Perhaps change that mastery to be initial, maximum, and base regeneration rate (in %).. and perhaps for karax too. All I know is, it needs something more to be a choice in mastery for Artanis.
04/17/2018 04:00 PMPosted by Jeslis
One thing I do think was missed is.. the starting/max SoA energy mastery. I still don't use it, and still don't need it or want it at all. I get 50 energy every 3 minutes (180seconds) the same as the shield overcharge(SO) CD. any time after SO comes off CD is spare energy that can be used for strikes..


You can use the energy like a karax to expand faster too. And if the overlay was removed, OS would be much nicer to use. I use it much more than i used to already.
Here's my opinion, after reading all of the comments. I like where these changes are heading but there could be a little more. As one of the first commanders and the Hierarch of the Daelaam, Artanis needs more respect. When you're reading just know that number values of the suggested changes are debatable. But I believe that the ideas are worth testing.

Orbital strike - Make it like Abathur's toxic nests, so that it charges up to 5. Still costs 5 energy to use each, 5 seconds to get 1 charge. No more annoying HUD.

For Guardian Shell mastery, as well as restoring health from 15 to 30 percent over 30 points, make the mastery reduce the CD as well. So instead of 240 second cooldown, have it 210 seconds, and have it reduce to 180 seconds at 30 points. (Shorter CDs for GS is ideal for commanders like Artanis or Raynor, but for other commanders it can be too strong. GS could be changed so that each commander or each unit has a different CD for it.)

Glory of the Daelaam - Increases all Artanis combat unit move speeds by 15% and increasing starting supply to 200. This won't make Artanis' units fast, but more manageable.

Dragoon - Revert attack speed to Brood War's 1.26 or anything faster than the current one, and adjust damage as necessary (Dragoon has so much damage loss due to slow attack speed. Even with 1.26, Dragoons will still be distinguished from Stalkers for their slower attack). Because Dragoons are inferior to Stalkers in almost every way, make Dragoons start with Trillic Compression Mesh. In its place, add an upgrade-able ability. Possibility 1, Divert Power, 150/150. that adds 8 damage for the next 5 attacks, consuming 8 shields per attack and wearing off at 7 shields or after 10 seconds, having a 40 second CD. This will allow Dragoons to be viable as a ranged support in the higher difficulties of Co-op and give more decision making to Artanis, as well as have Dragoons play into his new mastery. Possibility 2, Anti-air Capacitor Beam. Every 24 seconds, Dragoon gains a charge (max 2, auto-use toggleable) that allows the use of a secondary weapon that does 24 additional damage to air units on their next attack. This will contribute to Artanis' limited anti-air options and give more micro opportunities to Dragoons.

High Templar - Increase HP/Shields to 80/80 for more chance of survival, which leads to more micro. Give them a unique bonus to Feedback (Negative Feedback). No energy cost. When used it deals 100% of target's energy, and steals 100%. CD a tenth of energy stolen. This will give an incentive for retaining HTs and allow storms to be regularly used without investing all of Artanis' gas on HTs.

Archon - Get bonuses for Warp-in mastery. Have them pass through units like the floating ball of energy they are. Also have HTs pass through units when they're merging to become Archons. Give them unique Feedback bonus (Positive Feedback), costs 50 Energy and deals 100% of target's current energy as well as 100% of their max energy.

Reaver - Solarite Payload increases 25% splash and should also increase damage by 25 (Brood War throwback) as only 25% splash is very underwhelming for a 150/150 ugprade.

Phoenix - Instead of +1 x2 for upgrade, should be +1(+1 Light Armour) x2. Have Anionic Pulse Crystals already researched (like Karax's version of the Immortal has double shield already researched), and reduce Double Graviton upgrade to 100/100 from 150/150.

Tempest - Retain the damage and shorten the duration of Disintegrate by 40% (Current rate is way too slow). Have one type of attack for both air and ground at 10 range, then adjust damage as necessary. Decrease range of Disintegrate to 10. Current Tempest has three different attack ranges which doesn't make any sense.

Hope these are not too unreasonable. I believe it will make Artanis' play style more interesting and make more sense.
Well thought .. but too late
Artanis need Hero Unit. Since Artanis playstyle doesn't require any macro after 5-7 minutes. It would be cool to be able to control him on the battlefield. Since his units/ Spear of Adun abilities overall the most useless compare to all other commanders similar units/abilities. The dragoon is the only good cost effective unit he has since this patch. Also Artanis has the most weakness still:
1-No good heavy anti-air option (outside of dragoons)
2-Worst Capital ship. It is somehow even worst than the Ladder version of this unit. I don't even know how is it possible?!
3-No good cost-effective Wave clearing ability
4-Close to zero mobility
5-Almost always needs to use all of his units against all air composition/Waves also against bigger ground Waves. It wouldn't be a big deal if He would have any mobility.
6-No healing at all.
7-No Hero unit
8-Worst commanders abilities! (outside of Guardian Shell)
9-All of his units very very boring and slow. (outside of Dragoons)
Artanis is only good as an ally (Guardian Shell), or good to clear maps (Dragoons)
But lets be honest guys Artanis was free that is the reason why it suck. I would actually pay for it if they would make him more interesting and at least they would add him as a hero unit. Nice Dreams...
This dude lol
05/07/2018 01:51 AMPosted by Crusher
Well thought .. but too late


Well - the above post still is valid..
Neecccrrrooo

9 commanders have hero units, 2 more can call themselves in for a time. More than half, we need more non hero commanders not more.

Artanis is fine, he has two strong abilities, one strong passive. His units are somewhat boring but are all good, all of them.
7 dislikes in 5 minutes. That's why I love Starcraft2 community. Such welcoming people.
05/28/2019 02:32 PMPosted by LeBron
7 dislikes in 5 minutes. That's why I love Starcraft2 community. Such welcoming people.


Jumping on people for necro is a universal thing across forums.
What is necro?
05/28/2019 02:32 PMPosted by LeBron
7 dislikes in 5 minutes. That's why I love Starcraft2 community. Such welcoming people.
Your comments would have been better received if they'd been published in a new thread instead of bringing back one from last year. We hate on necro posting pretty hard here.

Necro, by the way, refers to posting in an old thread that was basically dead before.
05/28/2019 02:44 PMPosted by Moraeth
05/28/2019 02:32 PMPosted by LeBron
7 dislikes in 5 minutes. That's why I love Starcraft2 community. Such welcoming people.
Your comments would have been better received if they'd been published in a new thread instead of bringing back one from last year. We hate on necro posting pretty hard here.

Necro, by the way, refers to posting in an old thread that was basically dead before.
Thanks the info. But let's be real, people hate on everything. Thinking that they need any reason for that is nothing more than Illusion.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum