Thoughts on Cradle of Death

Co-op Missions Discussion
06/26/2018 11:20 AMPosted by Bozo
defending the waves is a challenge in this map, much more than the others. many places to defend, lower time to respond.

any new map is very cool, but i think that map is a little harder than the others. or maybe we just need more practite...

one time we lost because the ramp was closed and the truck get stucked...hue


Never ever ever wall ramps in co-op.
06/26/2018 11:41 AMPosted by ViS
06/26/2018 11:20 AMPosted by Bozo
defending the waves is a challenge in this map, much more than the others. many places to defend, lower time to respond.

any new map is very cool, but i think that map is a little harder than the others. or maybe we just need more practite...

one time we lost because the ramp was closed and the truck get stucked...hue


Never ever ever wall ramps in co-op.
Exception if you're walling with supply depots and you're good at lowering/raising them in a timely manner.
06/26/2018 12:13 PMPosted by Moraeth
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Never ever ever wall ramps in co-op.
Exception if you're walling with supply depots and you're good at lowering/raising them in a timely manner.


That's even worse than walling with raxes.

You want your tanky buildings getting attacked, not squishy-!@# depots.

And if you're there to prevent anything getting razed, what's even the point of walling to begin with?
...Exception if you're walling with supply depots and you're good at lowering/raising them in a timely manner.


That's even worse than walling with raxes.

You want your tanky buildings getting attacked, not squishy-!@# depots.

And if you're there to prevent anything getting razed, what's even the point of walling to begin with?
I'm mostly referring to H&H's depots here, which are literally designed for this purpose. Ideally they're mostly up but you're good at lowering them for you and your ally's stuff to go through when needed then immediately raising them back up.
They're only designed for stalling enemy units for the time it takes for mines to go off. They shouldn't be used for walling at all.
Miner Evac with mag mines mastery begs to differ
06/26/2018 11:41 AMPosted by ViS
Never ever ever wall ramps in co-op.


dat !@#$%^ tho

edit : grïngö
06/26/2018 01:49 PMPosted by Moraeth
...

That's even worse than walling with raxes.

You want your tanky buildings getting attacked, not squishy-!@# depots.

And if you're there to prevent anything getting razed, what's even the point of walling to begin with?
I'm mostly referring to H&H's depots here, which are literally designed for this purpose. Ideally they're mostly up but you're good at lowering them for you and your ally's stuff to go through when needed then immediately raising them back up.

You never have any reason to raise them because Amon, unlike a human player, is not planning on doing any runbies where they just go over the depots and into the mineral line. Instead, he a-moves and attacks the depots.
All for new coop content. Though I am admittedly still waiting for Selendis as a commander.
Done a few rounds on Hard (mostly playing Alarak), predominantly with random players. Feels unique, but not as unique as the original version (i.e. no real unique enemies, no truck upgrades, etc.). In addition, the construct thing gets annoying (OP if no truck nearby but then becomes a cakewalk when the truck arrives), especially in the late stages when you can have two or three firing on your army at once. Adjustment of this (both for number/placement and difficulty of these) would be useful.

Further, the map layout feels...off. While with other maps it is easy to know where to go for main and bonus objectives (I rarely strayed into an enemy area where there was no objective, even when learning), with this one I would surprisingly frequently end up stumbling across the fourth base while trying to do the second bonus objective (at the same time as the third objective was active). Even with these detours, though, pretty much all objectives were completed with time to spare (especially the fourth if I got lost earlier). It might partly be the changing layout and partly being new at the map, but it is probably how all objectives are split pretty evenly around the base despite being active at very different points.

Enemy attack waves also felt pretty weak, especially compared with something like Void Launch. Enemy bases also felt weak, especially compared with Scythe of Amon, and the lack of side bases to raid like with Lock and Load to provide additional challenge is frustrating. Most of the challenge here was those constructs, which felt poorly balanced as mentioned above.
06/25/2018 08:13 AMPosted by Deneb
Ugh, why do people complain about the constructs/not being able to move around the map freely without the truck? Isn't that the whole point of the map? Truck is the objective, a focal point of the mission gameplay wise.

I think the new map is awesome. It takes the best from the RTC map (gameplay) and mixes it with better visuals. It's a much-needed breeze of fresh air.

While I (obviously) love the map, I'd explain it like this:

A typical mission, like Mist Opportunities, railroads you by forcing you to defend the mining bots. However, you still can split off army to do things on other parts of the map. In contrast, while the trucks/constructs are like your "objective" in a typical co-op mission that you are railroaded to, the difference is that you can't split off to go elsewhere. Therefore if you have a certain skill level you feel artificially held back. Imagine if in Mist Opprotunities you couldn't pre-clear the points but had to wait for the harvesting bots -- the mission would be a lot slower, you'd be held back, and so forth.

For people like me it's not really a problem on Cradle of Death because the mission is paced well enough I've never felt held back by constructs/the truck, but for people who are faster they are more hard-capped by the mission than they are for pretty much any other mission.
Actually, you can still clear the map with your truck shutting down constructs so that you are not waiting for respawn or your ally. That means even fast players can keep busy on this map, something quite refreshing that lack from most other maps (excluding Scythe of Amon and the annoying Part and Parcel).
07/02/2018 02:55 AMPosted by Maltiki
Actually, you can still clear the map with your truck shutting down constructs so that you are not waiting for respawn or your ally. That means even fast players can keep busy on this map, something quite refreshing that lack from most other maps (excluding Scythe of Amon and the annoying Part and Parcel).


That's completely nonsensical. You don't HAVE a truck while you're waiting for respawns.
07/02/2018 03:17 AMPosted by ViS
07/02/2018 02:55 AMPosted by Maltiki
Actually, you can still clear the map with your truck shutting down constructs so that you are not waiting for respawn or your ally. That means even fast players can keep busy on this map, something quite refreshing that lack from most other maps (excluding Scythe of Amon and the annoying Part and Parcel).


That's completely nonsensical. You don't HAVE a truck while you're waiting for respawns.

Sorry, I meant instead of positioning your truck on the target locations, carry it along and clear the map. For instance, you can clear the nbonuses and let your ally carry his/her truck there while you continue clearing. I had an ally who carried me heavily doing that while I was going weird comp with Vorazun.
06/30/2018 05:29 AMPosted by TheSkunk
06/25/2018 08:13 AMPosted by Deneb
Ugh, why do people complain about the constructs/not being able to move around the map freely without the truck? Isn't that the whole point of the map? Truck is the objective, a focal point of the mission gameplay wise.

I think the new map is awesome. It takes the best from the RTC map (gameplay) and mixes it with better visuals. It's a much-needed breeze of fresh air.

While I (obviously) love the map, I'd explain it like this:

A typical mission, like Mist Opportunities, railroads you by forcing you to defend the mining bots. However, you still can split off army to do things on other parts of the map. In contrast, while the trucks/constructs are like your "objective" in a typical co-op mission that you are railroaded to, the difference is that you can't split off to go elsewhere. Therefore if you have a certain skill level you feel artificially held back. Imagine if in Mist Opprotunities you couldn't pre-clear the points but had to wait for the harvesting bots -- the mission would be a lot slower, you'd be held back, and so forth.

For people like me it's not really a problem on Cradle of Death because the mission is paced well enough I've never felt held back by constructs/the truck, but for people who are faster they are more hard-capped by the mission than they are for pretty much any other mission.


I would really like the option to purchase my own "Extra" truck. I have played this with several people and I have nearly lost the mission due to a few inexperienced players not moving their truck in position. Having the option to buy another truck allows players to solo the mission if they get an AFK companion (just like all the other missions). An alternative is that the bomb goes off after 30 seconds regardless of the other person moving their truck. This allows for solo play but also makes 2 non AFK players to clear the level quicker.
I think being able for the players to purchase EXTRA trucks is a fantastic one.

It solves a lot of problems:
-If you're careless, or expect to be careless, you can purchase extra trucks to come with you as a backup plan
-If your ally is AFK or negligent, you can bring extra trucks
-If your ally is particularly good (or you're trying to cheese solo runs), you can attack separate parts of the map concurrently to win faster
-Reduces need for waiting around after completing a bonus

I think if they were priced pretty highly - high enough that relying on them would be a big dent to your army (I'm thinking maybe 300-500 mins and 200-400 gas), it would add a lot of strategic depth to the map.

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