Shield Battery is Pathetic

General Discussion
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07/23/2018 09:26 PMPosted by Candy
I heard that just like the mothership core, you dont have to use effort to defend cheese and I heard you need to spend extra money to help defend drops and use actual units.

If you want to complain about something, complain about the stalker and adept. nerfs.

You know, after all of these years what unit scares me the most? I usually just leave games when I see queens in route to my base.

Doesn't matter whether I'm facing queens 4 minutes into the game or I'm maxed on tier 3. There is no unit, besides maybe BCs in mass, that is more "no way I can win this fight."

Attacks/kills everything. Out ranges all of your units. Has this "nifty" ability called f'ing invincibility. The queen not only kills everything, but it's a freaking shield battery for every other unit.

This unit is PERFECTLY FINE. But, god forbid you can make 1 mothership core. Just 1 of these bad boys is clearly more OP and worse design than any number of queens, serving every role in the game and shutting down armies by themselves.

Put a bunch of biased noobs in charge of game, and then have to try to play the game. Just horrible. Like playing 2 vs 2 and getting subbed for a bronze leaguer and just having to watch and pull your hair out. It's all garbage/trash and you should feel horrible.
07/23/2018 07:41 PMPosted by Gombrich
Sc2 balance team realized that msc is broken so they immediately removed it after DK got fired :)


Dayvie wasn't fired, he was moved to another project with Blizzard.
07/23/2018 07:36 PMPosted by MyOhMind
Why in THE WORLD, would the shield battery not be tied to distance from your nexus. It's not acceptable for this to be a boon for all-in players and an absolutely tragic building for macro players. How hard is it to simply go the right direction? Jesus.

It should function like the warp fields.

Close to a warp gate or nexus?. Full energy SB and faster unit warp ins.

Far from a warp gate or nexus?. Half energy SB and regular speed unit warp ins.
changed that for you

It should function like like the warp fields.

Close to a cc?. Full hp for bunker and all 6 cargo spaces.

Far from a cc?. Half hp and 3 cargo places.
You know what, walling off vs Zerg in HotS wasn't necessary. While everyone was claiming Daedalus Point was the worst map ever and it was unwinnable for Toss... While it wasn't my favorite map... it was one of my highest winning % maps. There was no issue...

Now... I'm forced to be like everyone else. Omg... gotta wall my natural. Omfg... the game is literally unplayable now since it takes 3 or 4 buildings to wall off the ramp. Please... map makers... what have you done. Game is ruined.

So sick. Every Toss is forced to do the same build and use the same building placement, while "10 units" are unusable, just sitting there collecting cobwebs.

I'll make the best strategy game every guys. It will be so complex! There will be 3 races, but everyone will just play 1 race, cause it will be much better and easier than the other races. And... each race will have 100 units, but only 1 Toss unit will be viable, and queens will be much better than that unit.

Balancing the freaking game by reducing the game to monowars. How can we balance mass immortals vs everything else. I'm so disgusted.

Every P vs P is a cannon rush. Awesome to play against. The best P vs Z strat is to all-in with 100000 shield batteries. Riveting gameplay.

Map makers, time to make it to where you can't easily cannon the main. They should just start writing build orders on the map, so just incase anyone forgets what we're supposed to do... Stay tuned, see who can excute the only viable build in the game better than the other guy.

Broodwar is so much better than this game, yet invest jack into it. Disgusting and shameful. So much for being an individual and being a game for creativity.
07/23/2018 07:33 PMPosted by Playa
I still can't believe they went ahead with this change. The only people who were lobbying for the shield battery were, literally, Bronze leaguers or people who never played Broodwar.

Why would you remove one of the best units for a race and introduce the least used thing in Broodwar? If you want to introduce the shield battery, that's fine. But, in no way does it replace the need for the mothership core.

So frustrating coming back to this game and seeing it's even worse than when I left, and somehow they made the worst race even worse. How?

What is the shield batteries main purpose? ALL-INS. It's not even a freaking defensive unit. Oh, I'm playing P vs Z... how should I use shield batteries to good effect? I dunno... maybe make about 10 of them outside of my opponent's main, while I try to kill him with immortals?

Oh, it's P vs P... and I want to all-in. Oh, I see my opponent made some shield batteries. What should I do... oh... let me make some, too, to negate his. Genius foresight. What a great defensive help.

P vs Z... gotta make sure you wall your main. Gotta make sure you wall your nat. Can't allow any surface area anywhere, since there is no defensive AID anymore. If you're not doing an all-in, get f'd. That's the message here.

Why on earth... should our "defensive unit" be far more impactful for when trying to execute all-ins? The exact opposite of what it was supposed to be. How hard is it to accomplish this?

Had to rant/vent. Beyond aggravating playing such a trash race and seeing such lack luster changes. May as well be playing WoL.

Why in THE WORLD, would the shield battery not be tied to distance from your nexus? It's not acceptable for this to be a boon for all-in players and an absolutely tragic building for macro players. How hard is it to simply go the right direction? Jesus.


You actually sound terrible just typing that out.

Ouch
07/23/2018 07:57 PMPosted by MyOhMind

Worst unit in the game GOT NERFED... You can't make this stuff up. How do you allow/get the worst unit in the game nerfed?


If you look at the patch history it's got mostly buffs:

Nerfing the unit from 4 to 6 supply renders the two sad excuses for buffs it got (i.e., slightly less pathetic damage vs all ground units and only massive air units) nothing more than halfhearted attempts at compensation.

Let's be straight here: costing 6 supply, 300 minerals, and 200 gas, only two units in the entire game are more expensive (i.e., carriers and battlecruisers), yet it sports a whopping 17 DPS vs ground units and 13 vs air units (22 vs massive).

To put that in the proper context: a lone hydralisk has 22 DPS vs everything. A single stimmed marine has 15 DPS vs everything. As far as Protoss units go, void rays deal vastly more damage vs any type of target, including massive air units, at a substantially lower price, 4 supply, and is available earlier in the tech tree.

The only true strength of the tempest, the massive 15 range, was nerfed to 10 vs ground, adding insult to injury and further pigeonholing the unit: today, its sole use is to pick at liberators and broodlords. That's it.

It has no general use whatsoever, and versus equal supply and/or resource cost, it is countered by every single ground and air unit able to hit it, including those massive flyers it was ostensibly supposed to be so great against.

"Capital ship" my !@#$.
Really, pros use it to secure 3rd bases, hold all-ins and I've heard terran's lose their mind over how good they are at defending harassment.

Is it as good as MSC? maybe not, but then, MSC costed 100 gas, also. But the MSC had a whole host of issues that the community hated.

It's seemed like a find change, to me.
The most funny thing is how PvP plays out after the changes. Its either cannon rush or rock-paper-scrissors. Oh, and don't forget that if you let 2 adepts into your main base ONCE you lose the game
As far as Protoss units go, void rays deal vastly more damage vs any type of target, including massive air units, at a substantially lower price, 4 supply, and is available earlier in the tech tree.


I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call 50/50, which is a price difference between Tempest and Void Ray in resources, a "substantially lower price" ^^
Wow, just from this thread:
Playa 4242 Posts
MyOhMind 3520 Posts
Miro 8673 Posts
Reno 19319 Posts
ZephynM 9993 Posts

I wonder whether you people spend more time whining and discussing trivia or playing the game.
07/23/2018 07:33 PMPosted by Playa
I still can't believe they went ahead with this change. The only people who were lobbying for the shield battery were, literally, Bronze leaguers or people who never played Broodwar.

Why would you remove one of the best units for a race and introduce the least used thing in Broodwar? If you want to introduce the shield battery, that's fine. But, in no way does it replace the need for the mothership core.

So frustrating coming back to this game and seeing it's even worse than when I left, and somehow they made the worst race even worse. How?

What is the shield batteries main purpose? ALL-INS. It's not even a freaking defensive unit. Oh, I'm playing P vs Z... how should I use shield batteries to good effect? I dunno... maybe make about 10 of them outside of my opponent's main, while I try to kill him with immortals?

Oh, it's P vs P... and I want to all-in. Oh, I see my opponent made some shield batteries. What should I do... oh... let me make some, too, to negate his. Genius foresight. What a great defensive help.

P vs Z... gotta make sure you wall your main. Gotta make sure you wall your nat. Can't allow any surface area anywhere, since there is no defensive AID anymore. If you're not doing an all-in, get f'd. That's the message here.

Why on earth... should our "defensive unit" be far more impactful for when trying to execute all-ins? The exact opposite of what it was supposed to be. How hard is it to accomplish this?

Had to rant/vent. Beyond aggravating playing such a trash race and seeing such lack luster changes. May as well be playing WoL.

Why in THE WORLD, would the shield battery not be tied to distance from your nexus? It's not acceptable for this to be a boon for all-in players and an absolutely tragic building for macro players. How hard is it to simply go the right direction? Jesus.

This sounds like another L2P issue.
07/24/2018 03:20 AMPosted by dpqb
I wonder whether you people spend more time whining and discussing trivia or playing the game.


That is a good question.

However I ask whether or not you love the game like those you listed. The more posts equal the move love of the game.

Making arbitrary statements is fun.
07/24/2018 03:20 AMPosted by dpqb
I wonder whether you people spend more time whining and discussing trivia or playing the game.


Posts are aggregate from all Battle.Net US forums, not just StarCraft 2.
Shield battery is pathetic because it can be used offensively.

Blizzard can't seem to design anything that can't be used in extraordinarily dumb allins for toss. Suppose it was too hard to have the battery only be buildable in fast warp conduits.
07/24/2018 02:32 AMPosted by AchromicWht
Really, pros use it to secure 3rd bases, hold all-ins and I've heard terran's lose their mind over how good they are at defending harassment.

Is it as good as MSC? maybe not, but then, MSC costed 100 gas, also. But the MSC had a whole host of issues that the community hated.

It's seemed like a find change, to me.

A queen costs 150... I'd rather spend 50 more minerals for a queen, and that's without the larva mechanic or creep...

I just hate that the queen is literally better than anything we've ever had, yet ofc a unit with a limit of 1 has to get removed. Can't even have vortex on a mothership.

This isn't rocket science. There's a reason Toss hasn't led a period in over 3 years. And we've gone over 7 years now without a month of Toss being at 51% win rate or greater vs Zerg. Our race is under powered and it just keeps getting nerfed.

What would a commentator say if someone made a colossus? "Wtf is this guy doing? Is this 2015?" What would a professional commentator say if someone made a tempest? I dunno, he probably hasn't seen one enough to even know what it does.

What would a professional SC 2 balance team do? Obviously jack. Why even talk about units in the game that are never used? Not like this isn't a MOBA with 1000 options.

I frankly find it to be nothing short of bs. If your job is merely to balance the game, then guess what... your job becomes a lot easier if you reduce the game to monobattles. You take a complex game with a lot of parts and reduce it down to immortals and all-ins with shield batteries. Well, looks like I'll be keeping my job for a lot longer, as Toss goes for a decade without leading a period.

None of it makes any sense, given the results. It's just a bunch of bs. You know how many non Koreans make up the top 30 of Aligulac? 10; 7 Zergs, 2 Toss and 1 Terran.

WHERE IS THE PROBLEM? WHERE COULD IT POSSIBLY BE? OMG... it's like finding a needle in a stack of needles... Help: S.O.S, said the balance team.

While I think the shield battery is a joke, it would be BETTER... if you knew Toss' stats weren't being inflated by their use in all-ins. Where is the incentive to play macro games when the other guy can just make immortals outside your base with his own shield batteries? It's ridiculous.

The good change: being able to recall at the start of the game, to at least give people a chance to win vs cannon rushes. Possibly good: disruptor change. Everything else? Enjoy your nerfs.
07/23/2018 07:50 PMPosted by Playa
...
It should function like the warp fields.

Close to a warp gate or nexus?. Full energy SB and faster unit warp ins.

Far from a warp gate or nexus?. Half energy SB and regular speed unit warp ins.

All I know is that it freaking sucks. You know which Toss players were probably lobbying against the mothership core? Try Has. Try players that just want to all-in every game. The mothership core did what it was supposed to.

Without fail, the few things in this game that make sense get changed. The nydus has zero business being invincible. Especially not early in the game. Changing a good mechanic for zero reason.

I hate Toss players man. Anytime we have something good, WE CRY. Omg... the colossus kills units. I can't stand it. When is the last time someone made a colossus now? Congratulations. They sure made that decision a lot easier for you, didn't they?

Yeah man, just make tempests to kill broodlords and stuff. Worst unit in the game GOT NERFED... You can't make this stuff up. How do you allow/get the worst unit in the game nerfed?

The shield battery solves nothing but adding to MMR of players who want to all-in. Man, "the game is so much better now. LotV is the best version of the game!"

Agendas currently in this game: 1) Make every 10 year old Zerg player a GSL caliber player. 2) Make sure Has and his followers are the only Toss players who have a chance to win again. A real throwback to MC.

Think about it... who cares if our tech units like the tempest and colossus are worthless? Oh, that's right... we want you to only all-in. It makes no difference if those units are good cause our race isn't supposed to win macro games. Go ahead kids... make 10 shield batteries outside your opponent's base. GREAT STARCRAFT. EPIC. WOW. Esports is back!
07/23/2018 07:41 PMPosted by Gombrich
No one lobbied dude.

Sc2 balance team realized that msc is broken so they immediately removed it after DK got fired :)

But i can agree with that shield batteries are broken for allins so they should remove them as well!

EVERYONE LOBBIED. I was losing my mind, every day, as I'd argue against the horde of shield battery worshipers/proponents. I'd check their profiles. They were always people who didn't play the game or were Bronze'ish.

Mutalisk is by far the worst unit in the game.

Now, left with a Bronze race.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

If you look at the patch history it's got mostly buffs:

Let's be straight here: costing 6 supply, 300 minerals, and 200 gas, only two units in the entire game are more expensive (i.e., carriers and battlecruisers)

It costs the same as a Thor,Ultralisk and Colossus.

It's a support siege ship, not a kill everything ship.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

If you look at the patch history it's got mostly buffs:

It has no general use whatsoever

It's better then the broodlord in every way with the exception of supply and fire rate. It even has the same ATG range as the broodlord.

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Tempest_(Legacy_of_the_Void)

VS

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Brood_Lord_(Legacy_of_the_Void)
07/24/2018 03:05 AMPosted by Aurioch
As far as Protoss units go, void rays deal vastly more damage vs any type of target, including massive air units, at a substantially lower price, 4 supply, and is available earlier in the tech tree.


I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call 50/50, which is a price difference between Tempest and Void Ray in resources, a "substantially lower price" ^^

In my book, supply is as much a price as minerals and gas; higher, even, in the late game, which is when you're able to build tempests.
07/24/2018 12:45 PMPosted by MyOhMind
...
Let's be straight here: costing 6 supply, 300 minerals, and 200 gas, only two units in the entire game are more expensive (i.e., carriers and battlecruisers)

It costs the same as a Thor,Ultralisk and Colossus.

Last time I checked, "more" and "the same" aren't synonymous, so what exactly are you trying to say beyond what I already did?

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