Shield Battery is Pathetic

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07/25/2018 02:21 PMPosted by Playa
07/25/2018 01:21 PMPosted by MyOhMind
Ultralisk,Thors and Colossus cost the same amount.

Selling a tempest here, come get your tempest. Price: ultra or a thor.

Considering how strong it is with damage, HP,armor, tech and range, the cost makes sense.
07/24/2018 10:49 AMPosted by JackONeill
Shield battery is pathetic because it can be used offensively.

Blizzard can't seem to design anything that can't be used in extraordinarily dumb allins for toss. Suppose it was too hard to have the battery only be buildable in fast warp conduits.


I actually preferred when the nexus recharged shields. Then Toss complained they had no energy left for chronoboost and blizz buckled to pressure and changed it.
07/25/2018 04:03 PMPosted by oldpainless
07/24/2018 10:49 AMPosted by JackONeill
Shield battery is pathetic because it can be used offensively.

Blizzard can't seem to design anything that can't be used in extraordinarily dumb allins for toss. Suppose it was too hard to have the battery only be buildable in fast warp conduits.


I actually preferred when the nexus recharged shields. Then Toss complained they had no energy left for chronoboost and blizz buckled to pressure and changed it.

Was that a MSC ability or a passive ability of the nexus?.

I'm looking at the following patch notes:

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Nexus_(Legacy_of_the_Void)
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Nexus_(Wings_of_Liberty_and_Heart_of_the_Swarm)
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Mothership_Core_(Legacy_of_the_Void)
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Mothership_Core_(Heart_of_the_Swarm)
07/25/2018 04:07 PMPosted by MyOhMind
07/25/2018 04:03 PMPosted by oldpainless
...

I actually preferred when the nexus recharged shields. Then Toss complained they had no energy left for chronoboost and blizz buckled to pressure and changed it.

Was that a MSC ability or a passive ability of the nexus?.


Passive ability of the nexus just before they introduced shield battery
07/25/2018 04:09 PMPosted by oldpainless
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Was that a MSC ability or a passive ability of the nexus?.


Passive ability of the nexus just before they introduced shield battery

Are you sure you are not thinking of the Energize ability the MSC had that restored all energy to targets?.

The only other ability I could find(had to go into the editor) that would make sense would be something called "Nexus- Shield Recharge". Would that be it?.

Because I found nothing in the following patchnotes:

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Nexus_(Legacy_of_the_Void)
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Nexus_(Wings_of_Liberty_and_Heart_of_the_Swarm)
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Mothership_Core_(Legacy_of_the_Void)
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Mothership_Core_(Heart_of_the_Swarm)
07/25/2018 04:33 PMPosted by MyOhMind
07/25/2018 04:09 PMPosted by oldpainless
...

Passive ability of the nexus just before they introduced shield battery

Are you sure you are not thinking of the Energize ability the MSC had that restored all energy to targets?.

The only other ability I could find(had to go into the editor) that would make sense would be something called "Nexus- Shield Recharge". Would that be it?.


No last big patch when they removed mothership core they gave the nexus 3 abilities - chronoboost, shield battery and recall but then removed the shield charger and added shield battery. It was only on the test map it never made it live.
07/25/2018 04:33 PMPosted by MyOhMind
Are you sure you are not thinking of the Energize ability the MSC had that restored all energy to targets?.

The only other ability I could find(had to go into the editor) that would make sense would be something called "Nexus- Shield Recharge". Would that be it?.


You know nothing about the game patches, yet you try to act like you know everything of this game and you act like you should be in charge of balance. Says a lot about your person if you don't even know what they wanted to change to the protoss arsenal how could you even want to change anything from the race.
07/25/2018 05:51 PMPosted by KyunG
07/25/2018 04:33 PMPosted by MyOhMind
Are you sure you are not thinking of the Energize ability the MSC had that restored all energy to targets?.

The only other ability I could find(had to go into the editor) that would make sense would be something called "Nexus- Shield Recharge". Would that be it?.


You know nothing about the game patches


I do know about the games patches, I checked the patch notes first and then I checked the map editor data.

The patch notes I checked are the following:

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Nexus_(Legacy_of_the_Void)
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Nexus_(Wings_of_Liberty_and_Heart_of_the_Swarm)
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Mothership_Core_(Legacy_of_the_Void)
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Mothership_Core_(Heart_of_the_Swarm)


It wasn't in patch notes that I could find because apparently it didn't even make it in:

<span class="truncated">...</span>
Are you sure you are not thinking of the Energize ability the MSC had that restored all energy to targets?.

The only other ability I could find(had to go into the editor) that would make sense would be something called "Nexus- Shield Recharge". Would that be it?.


No last big patch when they removed mothership core they gave the nexus 3 abilities - chronoboost, shield battery and recall but then removed the shield charger and added shield battery. It was only on the test map it never made it live.
07/25/2018 05:51 PMPosted by KyunG
07/25/2018 04:33 PMPosted by MyOhMind
Are you sure you are not thinking of the Energize ability the MSC had that restored all energy to targets?.

The only other ability I could find(had to go into the editor) that would make sense would be something called "Nexus- Shield Recharge". Would that be it?.

how could you even want to change anything from the race.

Do you want to know what I would change for Protoss?. Well here you go:

Voidray
  • Prismatic Beam slow decreased from 40% to 20%
  • Tempest
  • Disruption Blast ability has been re-added to the unit.
  • Adept
  • Resonating Glaives now also add +1 range.
  • Phoenix
  • Energy bar removed
  • Graviton Beam is now on a 50s cooldown
  • Carrier
  • Interceptor cost increased from 15 to 20
  • Shield Upgrade Cost
  • Level 1 changed from 150/150 to 100/100
  • Level 2 changed from 225/225 to 175/175
  • Level 3 changed from 300/300 to 250/250
  • Dark Templar
  • Shadow Stride research time decreased from 121s to 79s
  • MSC
  • Has be re-added with no abilities.
  • Mothership
  • Time Warp removed and replaced with Photon Overcharge
  • Oracle
  • Now has Time Warp
  • 07/25/2018 05:51 PMPosted by KyunG
    07/25/2018 04:33 PMPosted by MyOhMind
    Are you sure you are not thinking of the Energize ability the MSC had that restored all energy to targets?.

    The only other ability I could find(had to go into the editor) that would make sense would be something called "Nexus- Shield Recharge". Would that be it?.

    yet you try to act like you know everything of this game and you act like you should be in charge of balance.

    I have the patch notes, map editor data, development statements, different build information and many other things.
    07/25/2018 05:51 PMPosted by KyunG
    07/25/2018 04:33 PMPosted by MyOhMind
    Are you sure you are not thinking of the Energize ability the MSC had that restored all energy to targets?.

    The only other ability I could find(had to go into the editor) that would make sense would be something called "Nexus- Shield Recharge". Would that be it?.


    You know nothing about the game patches

    Really? Well first I checked the following patch histories:

    https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Nexus_(Legacy_of_the_Void)
    https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Nexus_(Wings_of_Liberty_and_Heart_of_the_Swarm)
    https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Mothership_Core_(Legacy_of_the_Void)
    https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Mothership_Core_(Heart_of_the_Swarm)

    Then after seeing that no shield restore ability was ever on either of them I checked the map editor data itself and found a "Nexus- Shield Recharge" ability buried in the Protoss abilities data.
    Shield battery was a straight-up nerf to Protoss defense. Shield batteries keep units alive which then can dish out damage. This requires both units AND shield batteries in the right location to work, and you can't change the location of a shield battery after it's built. Pylon Overcharge could be placed on any pylon at any location, and turned an otherwise useless building into a fighter that both increased the HP and DPS of the Protoss army. Shield batteries only increase the HP, and only when burst-damage isn't present.

    However, the shield battery is far from trash. It is still very good, it's just not overpowered like the photon overcharge was. It just seems underpowered compared to having a free win in every defense scenario with zero effort. Now you have to actually think about your defense and that is a GOOD thing.
    07/25/2018 08:56 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
    Shield battery was a straight-up nerf to Protoss defense. Shield batteries keep units alive which then can dish out damage. This requires both units AND shield batteries in the right location to work, and you can't change the location of a shield battery after it's built. Pylon Overcharge could be placed on any pylon at any location, and turned an otherwise useless building into a fighter that both increased the HP and DPS of the Protoss army. Shield batteries only increase the HP, and only when burst-damage isn't present.

    However, the shield battery is far from trash. It is still very good, it's just not overpowered like the photon overcharge was. It just seems underpowered compared to having a free win in every defense scenario with zero effort. Now you have to actually think about your defense and that is a GOOD thing.

    I'm still not sure how I feel about it in regards to differences in strength.

    There are some things I like and others that I dislike. On one hand, it's very frustrating losing games to "Bronzies" that, otherwise, couldn't have happened.

    For example, a guy showed up to my base with 2 stalkers a few seconds before my second stalker was done. So, he just auto won... It's like, really? I need a static d building that quickly....

    Then, when you expo and make your shield batteries like a good little macro boy... the other guy can just make shield batteries outside your nat. Like... the feels don't feel right...

    I'm still pretty perturbed about having to wall off vs Zerg now. Lame. The design is so good/cool that maps have to be designed with the exact same specifications! Nice.

    On the other hand... I think it's a pretty big buff to skytoss... It makes defending multiple bases/spreading out a lot easier, as cannons + shield batteries become Toss' version of a planetary fortress. And, recharging the shields of carriers is nice.

    Sniping off pylons was pretty easy, after early game. I think it makes it far harder to kill skytoss players... I think it pushes you towards only massing immortals or carriers to maximize recharging value. And those happen to be your strongest units you'd like to have, anyways.

    Tis a bit of a bummer not being able to hit air, but, at the end of the day, I'd probably be okay or even happy with the current state, IF they couldn't be used in all-ins. Every time someone abuses this for a win, it's like stealing a win from every other Toss player.

    I don't like it. It's like designing an anti air unit that ends up being the best anti ground unit. Make it what it should be.

    Btw, your race has queens. Pretty good defense/unit...
    I still can't believe they went ahead with this change. The only people who were lobbying for the shield battery were, literally, Bronze leaguers or people who never played Broodwar.

    Why would you remove one of the best units for a race and introduce the least used thing in Broodwar? If you want to introduce the shield battery, that's fine. But, in no way does it replace the need for the mothership core.

    So frustrating coming back to this game and seeing it's even worse than when I left, and somehow they made the worst race even worse. How?

    What is the shield batteries main purpose? ALL-INS. It's not even a freaking defensive unit. Oh, I'm playing P vs Z... how should I use shield batteries to good effect? I dunno... maybe make about 10 of them outside of my opponent's main, while I try to kill him with immortals?

    Oh, it's P vs P... and I want to all-in. Oh, I see my opponent made some shield batteries. What should I do... oh... let me make some, too, to negate his. Genius foresight. What a great defensive help.

    P vs Z... gotta make sure you wall your main. Gotta make sure you wall your nat. Can't allow any surface area anywhere, since there is no defensive AID anymore. If you're not doing an all-in, get f'd. That's the message here.

    Why on earth... should our "defensive unit" be far more impactful for when trying to execute all-ins? The exact opposite of what it was supposed to be. How hard is it to accomplish this?

    Had to rant/vent. Beyond aggravating playing such a trash race and seeing such lack luster changes. May as well be playing WoL.

    Why in THE WORLD, would the shield battery not be tied to distance from your nexus? It's not acceptable for this to be a boon for all-in players and an absolutely tragic building for macro players. How hard is it to simply go the right direction? Jesus.[/quote

    [quote="207648776549"]I still can't believe they went ahead with this change. The only people who were lobbying for the shield battery were, literally, Bronze leaguers or people who never played Broodwar.

    Why would you remove one of the best units for a race and introduce the least used thing in Broodwar? If you want to introduce the shield battery, that's fine. But, in no way does it replace the need for the mothership core.

    So frustrating coming back to this game and seeing it's even worse than when I left, and somehow they made the worst race even worse. How?

    What is the shield batteries main purpose? ALL-INS. It's not even a freaking defensive unit. Oh, I'm playing P vs Z... how should I use shield batteries to good effect? I dunno... maybe make about 10 of them outside of my opponent's main, while I try to kill him with immortals?

    Oh, it's P vs P... and I want to all-in. Oh, I see my opponent made some shield batteries. What should I do... oh... let me make some, too, to negate his. Genius foresight. What a great defensive help.

    P vs Z... gotta make sure you wall your main. Gotta make sure you wall your nat. Can't allow any surface area anywhere, since there is no defensive AID anymore. If you're not doing an all-in, get f'd. That's the message here.

    Why on earth... should our "defensive unit" be far more impactful for when trying to execute all-ins? The exact opposite of what it was supposed to be. How hard is it to accomplish this?

    Had to rant/vent. Beyond aggravating playing such a trash race and seeing such lack luster changes. May as well be playing WoL.

    Why in THE WORLD, would the shield battery not be tied to distance from your nexus? It's not acceptable for this to be a boon for all-in players and an absolutely tragic building for macro players. How hard is it to simply go the right direction? Jesus.


    Yeeeep, too bad the forums are mostly gold/plat players or unranked who havent played in several months yet like to skulk on here downvoting legitimate game concerns..

    I've posted a few things on here before with some serious math and consideration into the post, doesn't matter. Lost in the noise. Everyone just downvotes any suggestion that isnt directly tied to making their life easier
    Well, on the bright side, I'm here to remind everyone why "SC 2 is the best game." You thought, man... nothing can get better than the broodlord, infestor era. Then... the swarm host era came... and you were like... "no way can any one man get this lucky. This is beyond awesome. Best era yet."

    Well, boys... LotV is truly the best version of the game. Always evolving. It's time for the Playa era.

    You're probably thinking, Playa hasn't played in years... no way can he remember how to play this game. Like remembering you have a bicycle. Some things are hard to forget, I tell you. Make good units, don't make bad units. Profit?

    I feel like I'm cheating, you know? We have shield batteries in part to how weak warp gates are, but Playa knows better than to ever get warp gate. Only making good units + the added benefit of shield batteries? Truly time for the Playa era.

    Last game and vs GM Zerg: https://drop.sc/replay/7965964

    Every matchup, same thing. Just carriers and disruptors, and sit there and say "come at me bro." If this isn't how SC 2 was meant to be played, then someone take all of Snute's money from him, and every Zerg who won anything in WoL.

    I actually do enjoy this. I feel like a filthy casual, you know. Ain't no one got time for all that try hard stuff. Btw, how about that wall off? "Why you got a pylon in your wall?" Cowards. You're not ready for the new era.

    You're probably still making HT like a chump. Don't be that guy.

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