Re-evaluate Viper Energy - Balance Changes

General Discussion
Corsair! You are right to
09/22/2018 12:26 PMPosted by MrMojoRisin
I think the A.I. targeting puts vipers somewhere at the top, so as long as the protoss unit isn't being directly attacked, or is on the second line, it will target the vipers.


What ? First of all, it's something very easily verified, there are plenty of testing tools for that.

But that's just not true. Units, will ALWAYS give priority to units which can fire back. They will attack other units only if no units that can damage them is in range. And even then, when they have a small range (including melee) they will move to reach them even if there's another unit which cannot attack it in range.

Some units like Thors have also priority target. Thors and Queen will attack Air unit first. But this priority is secondary to the first I mentionned. Which means Thors will always attack those units in that order :
Banshee (Air and can attack the Thor)
Marines (Ground but can attack the Thor)
Viking (Air but cannot attack the Thor)

Vipers are considered like Air units which can attack both Air and Ground (because of its spells). But they do not have any additional priority.
If you put Marines under Vipers, Mutas and Corruptors for instance, the Corruptor will be attacked last, but the Mutas and Vipers will be attacked at the same time.

Vipers, Mutas and Corruptors against Viking however will all have the same Priority since they can all attack (including with spell) the Vikings.

Since you mentionned Protoss specifically, I did the same test with Tempest. The closest unit will be chosen, not necessarily the Viper.

The only reason why they would be focused is if they are in the front of your army. Stop using F2 maybe ?

You mentionned "being directly attacked". This has nothing to do with priority either. Only the fact that a unit can attack will give priority, not if they are actually doing it or not. Of all units which can fire back, the closest will usually have priority. The only exception are for big units like Thors with a slow rotationnal speed. They will prioritize units which do not require to rotate (and thus loose time doing so).
Papanarbre tries to educate a armchair-theorycrafting noob that barely separates a Hydralisk from a Ultralisk....
All he will receive in return are abuse and more verbal abuse.....
09/22/2018 05:45 PMPosted by Gama
Papanarbre tries to educate a armchair-theorycrafting noob that barely separates a Hydralisk from a Ultralisk....
All he will receive in return are abuse and more verbal abuse.....


It's a well known fact that repetition is essential for education. Hopefully, one day, some of it will sink in.
09/22/2018 05:21 PMPosted by Corsair
09/22/2018 02:50 PMPosted by MrMojoRisin
I'm enjoying beating you up. Sure.


Seriously, are you okay? You've completely derailed into personally insulting random people on the Internet when they simply disagree with you and offer an alternative view.

Again...
09/22/2018 01:32 PMPosted by Corsair
I'm genuinely concerned.


Again. You're not genuinely concerned, so again, everything in all your 4500 posts is genuine bullsh--t. I'm pointing that out. If we have a disagreement: I only pointed out that you were not returning points of debate, just bullsh-t, always. So there is in fact, nothing to disagree on. You cannot disagree on falsehoods and rhetoric. You hijacked a post with falsehood, which is in fact derailing it.

I don't know you personally, and as evidenced by your conduct I don't want to. Spare your genuine concern. If you took my presentations of your stupid bullsh-t statements personally and you realize that they state an individual truth about you rather than your bullsh-t, change yourself, and refocus your concern to where it can be useful.
At least now we know that the fits have a periodic occurrence that has a 24 hour calmness.
We will time the next attack!
Corsair and Papanarbre are kindly advised to let the subject alone. It is funny to see how he will boil in his own fat (without external stimuli)!
09/22/2018 06:54 PMPosted by Papanarbre
09/22/2018 05:45 PMPosted by Gama
Papanarbre tries to educate a armchair-theorycrafting noob that barely separates a Hydralisk from a Ultralisk....
All he will receive in return are abuse and more verbal abuse.....


It's a well known fact that repetition is essential for education. Hopefully, one day, some of it will sink in.


Dude. Sorry if I got the A.I. Targeting wrong or whatever. I'm not going to read your thesis on A.I. Targeting. I was just surprised that over 50% of vipers are killed by feedback from High Templars and that's a provable statistic. Unfortunately, that's what happens when you respond to garbage. I meant to say it like you did, that vipers fall to any unit that can shoot air targets, or if i didn't mean that, I see the error, and mean it now.

Go do your testing and give Gama or me if you want a complete break-down of whatever you determine, write your thesis and REPEAT it if you like. Ya, me and Gama's and Corsair's conversation and some others has degenerated, but if you're implying anything by your "repetition is essential for education", then you're like the 5th man in, and I don't think I've read or commented on your posts before. Way to go. Maybe they needed your help?
Gama, Corsair, I don't know your point, and I don't know what you were ever trying to accomplish by posting here or any of your 8000+ combined posts. I've admitted you're right, and you can go away. You want me to apologize for hurting your feelings? Ok. I apologize. You want me to re-iterate what you were correct about? I'll try: Something like,

"The game is fine, but Protoss are underpowered and Zerg are vastly overpowered. Vipers are fine, but overpowered and the best spellcaster, and changes to the game do not affect vipers. Other units need attention."

If you want anything else, or a different mea culpa, I'll sign that dotted line for you with MrMojoRisin. If you want to fight, you guys do seem simple minded to me, and I've told you I enjoy it, it's fun, so it's ok too. I'm not going to bully you though. If you're concerned for me or your feelings and you want to stop fighting, post that, and I'll stop for you.

Since you have repeated it, and I'm educated, and therefore your concern is surely genuine. How are you going to act on your concern? We can set up some anonymous exchange if you want to send medical help, or call 9-1-1, or pay for my psychologist, or what were you thinking? Maybe you have some expertise, or can send me some calming drugs? As you don't know my financial situation or mental state, suggesting I get mental help may not be helpful, and your concern is genuine.
09/23/2018 05:34 PMPosted by MrMojoRisin
Again. You're not genuinely concerned, so again, everything in all your 4500 posts is genuine bullsh--t. I'm pointing that out. If we have a disagreement: I only pointed out that you were not returning points of debate, just bullsh-t, always. So there is in fact, nothing to disagree on. You cannot disagree on falsehoods and rhetoric. You hijacked a post with falsehood, which is in fact derailing it.

I don't know you personally, and as evidenced by your conduct I don't want to. Spare your genuine concern. If you took my presentations of your stupid bullsh-t statements personally and you realize that they state an individual truth about you rather than your bullsh-t, change yourself, and refocus your concern to where it can be useful.


You have dodged all questions regarding the necessity of your suggestion.

You devolved this topic by resulting to insults and obscenities.

You made asinine assumptions and bombastic rhetoric.

So lets try again.
09/22/2018 11:58 AMPosted by Corsair
I'm simply wondering why you want to change something that is completely fine?


And if you don't think its fine, what evidence are you bringing to the table that actually supports that idea? If you can't answer those simple question then what are you actually doing here besides being rude?
09/23/2018 06:32 PMPosted by MrMojoRisin
you guys do seem simple minded to me


09/23/2018 06:32 PMPosted by MrMojoRisin
I'm not going to bully you though.


Haha, quality human right here, folks.
09/23/2018 06:39 PMPosted by Corsair
09/23/2018 05:34 PMPosted by MrMojoRisin
Again. You're not genuinely concerned, so again, everything in all your 4500 posts is genuine bullsh--t. I'm pointing that out. If we have a disagreement: I only pointed out that you were not returning points of debate, just bullsh-t, always. So there is in fact, nothing to disagree on. You cannot disagree on falsehoods and rhetoric. You hijacked a post with falsehood, which is in fact derailing it.

I don't know you personally, and as evidenced by your conduct I don't want to. Spare your genuine concern. If you took my presentations of your stupid bullsh-t statements personally and you realize that they state an individual truth about you rather than your bullsh-t, change yourself, and refocus your concern to where it can be useful.


You have dodged all questions regarding the necessity of your suggestion.

You devolved this topic by resulting to insults and obscenities.

You made asinine assumptions and bombastic rhetoric.

So lets try again.
09/22/2018 11:58 AMPosted by Corsair
I'm simply wondering why you want to change something that is completely fine?


And if you don't think its fine, what evidence are you bringing to the table that actually supports that idea? If you can't answer those simple question then what are you actually doing here besides being rude?


Ok. well my mea culpa covered that didn't it? Or do you want a different one? I haven't dodged a single question. I did try to answer your question of wonderment, and I also just told you that you were right. I've been laying out your posts sentence by sentence, sometimes phrase by phrase, and replying to them so that Gama can reply that I'm writing too much, and you can say I''m being rude? Why are you complaining about me being rude? I mean... really? Are you a nun? When I say the rude things, they are to make a point, they're not just blind swearing. I apologized for hurting your feelings. Do you really think your 4500 posts are the epitome of integrity and politeness? Do you think your opening into this post was just polite, and you're surprised by a rude response? You have so many outs to this. Your post was not valuable. I don't like it whether you think it was rude or not. I don't want you here. If you don't want to be here don't be here. You don't have to enter into this post, and your final point is wonderment on why I want to change something that is fine. I really and truly have no interest in changing your opinion about why I want to change something that is completely fine. What do you want now? The last word? Ok. I'll leave it to you. Use it to re-iterate your point. If your point was to express wonderment on why I wanted to change something that was completely fine. It's made. Good point. Time well spent. Pat yourself on the back. Go ahead and restate it again.

For Corsair and Gama,

The game is fine, but Protoss are underpowered and Zerg are vastly overpowered. Vipers are fine, but overpowered and the best spellcaster, and changes to the game do not affect vipers. Other units need attention.

Signed, MrMojoRisin

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