Thoughts on Balance Update

General Discussion
Again, if other posters here would like to discuss the changes below feel welcome to but I'm just going to share my thoughts here for the balance team to read.

Protoss:

-Shield Battery:
I would've preferred an actual nerf to cannon rushes directly because it wouldn't affect protoss's defensive capabilities but this change will probably be ok. As others have said, it will make the proxy ravager+spore strategy more powerful. As a Dark fan I like that, but as far as balance goes we'll have to see if its an issue.

-Warp Prism:
Finally. Archon drops, when properly micro'd, feel almost broken in their current state for exactly this reason (combined range of pickup and archons preventing queens from doing their job). This is a great way to nerf this without having to buff queen aa again.

-Void Ray:
I can understand that protoss lategame will be under a serious threat from broodlord corruptor with the new changes but it would make more sense to examine the carrier changes than to do this imo. The interaction of corruptors and void rays was in a good spot already but we'll have to see.

Zerg:

-Queen:
This transfuse change is interesting because its both a buff and a nerf. Against early pressure, transfusing roaches will be more effective and easier to do but in the lategame it will be much worse. I think this change is fine overall, but if it has severe impact on lategame zerg might need some help.

-Creep:
No no no. Awful, awful change. Don't punish zerg players for perfecting a skill that requires a lot of multi tasking and rhythm by totally messing up that rhythm. Give foreigners a chance to learn how to deny creep as well as koreans have before you think about nerfing creep. Right now foreigners are still showing no respect for their zerg opponents and are sending their units in to their deaths because they 'have to get their damage early' rather than maintaining map control and swelling their army value over time with small engagements. This is honestly the biggest difference between korean and foreign play, so to nerf creep spread due to that difference is absurd, especially when foreigners are finally starting to close the gap and improve in skill.

-Roach:
Random and pointless nerf to an upgrade that rarely sees any use outside of foreign zvz games. The cost reduction is so small its almost meaningless, but the loss of health regen is huge. If you're going to make this change, at least move the upgrade to hatch tech so that it will still see some play in the other matchups, because even as it is now it rarely gets any use in zvt or zvp.

-Hydralisk:
Good change, much more reasonable than the health reduction. Although a better change would still be to nerf tanks and revert the hydra entirely to 80 hp with merged upgrades. That would actually encourage variety, while this only maintains the hydras role while nerfing it slightly.

-Infestor:
The size changes are interesting and I think they will make the unit feel less clunky and easy to snipe, which is good because currently they are like vespene gas pinatas. The fungal changes are very nice, although it would be simpler to just have fungal prevent all abilities like interference matrix does. Either way these are good changes though.

-Nydus:
Oh baby... That is cheeaaap now. Probably a fair trade for it being so easy to kill now though. A tank or a void ray shuts down the nydus very very easily now. Much appreciated change, as the threat of a nydus is important for balance otherwise protoss and terran will play very reckless and greedy vs zerg with their build orders.

Things not in update:

-Tactical jump:
This ability needs to go. The only reason it isn't already a massive issue is because battlecruisers aren't currently worth their cost or supply compared to other terran options. But once the changes go through, if this ability stays in any form it will be abused with repair to snowball a massive army. Infestors are not going to be viable counterplay when zerg will already be starving for enough gas to fight terrans air presence.

-Proxy rax and cannon rush:
These are still proving to be an issue. Previously the excuse for not touching them was that they never see hardly any professional use because if they're scouted or expected they aren't effective. This is clearly not the case. Something has to be done.

-Roach ravager viability:
With the thor changes likely to help mutalisk play and the update to nydus changes we are approaching a very healthy state for zerg with lots of options. The only option that still seems hugely unattractive is roach ravager styles. In early lotv, they were the standard meta but ling bane was still viable as well. But ever since the tank changes roach ravager has been underused against terran. Please show some love to roach ravager and either nerf the tank (and hydra hp to compensate) or increase corrosive bile range (not the preferred option because protoss will be vulnerable to early ravager pressure).

Thanks for reading.
09/26/2018 01:39 PMPosted by Ace
-Tactical jump:


I'm fine with the BC having tac jump. I'm not fine with it being invulnerable while it jumps away.

It should be just like Recall. Unit takes damage while Teleporting.

If you cast it too late, you're still going to lose the BC. If you cast it early enough, it survives. This promotes the ambush style of BC, which I think is cool, and punishes the get-out-totally-free aspect. At least Protoss loses units as they Recall.
nerfs 2 zerg bad

buffs 2 zerg good

nerfs 2 protoss good

buffs 2 protoss bad

need 2 nerf terran

lol bias zerg stay bias
For proxy rax, I've a proposal:
Make barracks, factories and starports unable to fly, but their addons can fly instead. This still will allow flexible terran builds, while preventing proxy strategies or make them risky (as it is for Protoss). Or make them lose HP after X time they're flying and start burning (but can be repaired).

Overall the patch is pretty bad for Protoss, with all the changes combined, I wouldn't be surprised to see negative winrates in both matchups.
SB Nerf- Impacts Proxy hatch defense, Ravager defense and even Cyclon defense (even with Cylon nerf).
Recall Nerf- Impacts ability of Protoss to save units from spells like anti-armor missile that now also reduces shields in addition to upgrades.
Tempest Nerf/Buff is interesting.
HT nerf is said to be in the right direction but now Protoss is more vulnerable to drops,and combined with the wm invisibility upgrade, Protoss will struggle defending multipronged Terran attacks. It would need some type of AA tool to deal with this other than Stalkers.

Carriers need the Graviton upgrade, and test only few things at a time, but all of them at once is too much. Late game Zerg is too strong with mass hydra, infestor burrowed neurals, broodlord/corruptor. Void Rays change won't be enough unless they get back their WoL state to be able to charge over time. And Vikings will melt Airtoss combined with BCs and Ravens.
09/26/2018 01:46 PMPosted by Wap
nerfs 2 zerg bad

buffs 2 zerg good

nerfs 2 protoss good

buffs 2 protoss bad

need 2 nerf terran

lol bias zerg stay bias


My proposals are very bananalanced.
09/26/2018 01:46 PMPosted by Corsair
09/26/2018 01:39 PMPosted by Ace
-Tactical jump:


It should be just like Recall. Unit takes damage while Teleporting.

[/quote]

To be consistent with other behaviors, like Medivacs and SBs healing units on Phoenix beam. Or units being recalled now should not take damage, with the reduced radius, nothing will be recalled at all.

Also Mothership time warp takes a long of time to cast, should be faster. Is super dodgeable and useless, now is more useful on buildings though.
Zerg creep nerf is going the wrong direction imo. Don't punish a mechanic that allows great zergs to differentiate from good ones. If they wanted to nerf creep, couldn't they just increase the speed creep recedes when tumors are killed?
09/26/2018 01:46 PMPosted by Corsair
At least Protoss loses units as they Recall.


Well yes but as a Protoss you can still recall army with all kinds of units meanwhile Terran does have teleportation (recall) only on BC.

Also this is the most expensive unit in game. Costs even more than Ultralisk or Carrier.
Tunneling claws is probably nerfed because of Serral, but honestly this is not a bad change. Transfuse nerf I can get behind. Creep nerf on the other hand is only to compensate for foreign Terrans' lack of skill. It was never a problem against two evenly matched players. It probably won't change too much to be frank but we will see.
I can just say I can't look forward to PvZ.
No BC TJ removal = wasted update!
09/26/2018 01:39 PMPosted by Ace
-Roach ravager viability:


Addressed instantly with the changes to infestor, enjoy.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum