What is Zerg's strong out of the gate option?

General Discussion
Protoss

Warp Prism
Pick-up range reverted from 5 to 6.

After reviewing feedback, we have decided to revert the pick-up range from 5 to 6 as we’d like for all races to feel like they have strong options out of the gate with the new patch.
queens
Lol sweet summer child, Zerg doesn't get those things. We can make drones though. Yay.
10/26/2018 04:31 PMPosted by lllIlIlIlIlI
queens


^ Though their healing and tumors will get nerfed. Doesn't change their Anti-Air ability though.
Macro.
Queens, zerglings are strong and to discount them would be a mistake. As are roaches, though while those start strong, they fall off.
10/26/2018 04:31 PMPosted by lllIlIlIlIlI
queens


Queens are so insane. You get a unit right off the bat that can be made and used all the way till the ultra late game without costing any gas or needing any upgrade/research.
Roaches and banes? Nydus buff? *shrug*

I do think they went a bit far on Zerg nerfs, prism range nerf I think was fine while hydra dps nerf was I think enough with the first value.
10/26/2018 07:23 PMPosted by WireBender
Roaches and banes? Nydus buff? *shrug*

I do think they went a bit far on Zerg nerfs, prism range nerf I think was fine while hydra dps nerf was I think enough with the first value.


I miss being able to rush as zerg (as I remember as a child), now I have to take getting beaten on until I get strong, like Im a super saiyan or some crap.
freech 4 free win

free unit = free wins
10/26/2018 07:56 PMPosted by MystiKasT
10/26/2018 07:23 PMPosted by WireBender
Roaches and banes? Nydus buff? *shrug*

I do think they went a bit far on Zerg nerfs, prism range nerf I think was fine while hydra dps nerf was I think enough with the first value.


I miss being able to rush as zerg (as I remember as a child), now I have to take getting beaten on until I get strong, like Im a super saiyan or some crap.

Ling floods are still amazing vs. Protoss, roach ravager push can work vs. Terran, and 1 base ravager all-in is definately still possible in TvZ, even if Korean terrans got too good with their micro these days.
Drones.
creep hack
I think people are forgetting the reason for the warp prism nerf, which is why none of these responses make sense.

The warp prism range nerf was put in there to address Archon pickup games: zerg queens cannot hit the warp prism without being in range of the one thing that actually deals bonus damage to it.

So "ling flood" is not a response. Queens are not a response.

The way to fight archon drops has been queen / roach / hydra. I do not particularly agree that this properly answers the issue with archon drops, namely, that even if you are prepared for them, you can't stop them from dealing damage.
The only two units that zerg can make that are good out of the box is the queen and the viper. Every other unit requires upgrades to be even remotely competent. It's like stim to bio, but every aspect of zerg has an upgrade that is just as important to those units as stim is to bio.

Getting +1 on your mutas can double the dps of your mutas vs thors. Zerglings, roaches and hydras without speed are complete trash. Ultralisks without armor are trash. Broodlords are complete trash if you haven't kept up with melee upgrades (have you ever seen 3/3 bio vs 0/0 broodlings?).

And, the queen and the viper have no way to upgrade them and make them stronger so they scale later into the game. So the immediate value that you get falls off the longer the game goes on. This principle holds true for any unit that zerg has that has a maximal upgrade potential-- once you have roach speed and 3/3, your roaches WILL NOT get any better, and to have a better army you have to replace those roaches with better units that have a higher peak strength.

If you contrast that with Terran, terran is loaded with units like the liberator that are insanely good out of the box and that have upgrades like liberator range that make sure they scale into the late-game. There's never a situation where a terran can be "out-teched" when terran as a race ia designed to be tech-less. You don't have to tech to stronger units and replace your weaker ones, you just keep spamming the same units and click on an upgrade that keeps them relevant.
Queens? Zerglings? Roaches? Banelings?

sigh

10/27/2018 12:06 AMPosted by madumlao
I think people are forgetting the reason for the warp prism nerf, which is why none of these responses make sense.

The warp prism range nerf was put in there to address Archon pickup games: zerg queens cannot hit the warp prism without being in range of the one thing that actually deals bonus damage to it.

So "ling flood" is not a response. Queens are not a response.

The way to fight archon drops has been queen / roach / hydra. I do not particularly agree that this properly answers the issue with archon drops, namely, that even if you are prepared for them, you can't stop them from dealing damage.


Lmao you are so wrong it hurts. They definitely did not intend to nerf Archon Drops because that build is garbage. That is right. That build is g.a.r.b.a.g.e. Any mediocre zerg player should be able to defend it in their sleep.

Archon drop is the toss equivalent of the 211, it's so overused, so overplayed, it has become a joke build.

More likely they were concerned about proxy shield battery immortal prism bs.

Either way the prism range pick up range nerf didn't really make sense, glad they dialed that back.
10/27/2018 02:24 AMPosted by DEFIANCE
Lmao you are so wrong it hurts. They definitely did not intend to nerf Archon Drops because that build is garbage.


From https://starcraft2.com/en-us/news/22535491
One area we feel could see some improvement on is the ability for Zerg players ward off Warp Prism/Archon openings. Currently, the combined range of the Prism pickup and the Archon is 9, which outranges the Queen’s anti-air attack by 1. We’d like to reduce pickup range by 1 to allow Queens to interact more meaningfully with Warp Prism play.


Their stated reason was specifically archon drops. Personally, I didn't find them difficult to deal with: I basically have to commit more army (a few roaches / hydras + queens) for base defense.

However, I do think the warp prism immortal pickup is bull!@#$ and I preferred the range nerf for that reason specifically.

10/27/2018 02:24 AMPosted by DEFIANCE
More likely they were concerned about proxy shield battery immortal prism bs.


They nerfed it, then put it back, but their reason for putting it back was never consistent. Their reason for nerfing was weak, but IF they considered the reason for nerfing was a problem, nothing in the game or patches actually changed to make that less of a problem. In fact, with the hydra DPS nerf, it's more of a problem.
Oh, well just burned myself here although I will say it's ridiculous that they would even consider nerfing an already pretty weak build lol. Kind of makes you wonder if they play/watch this game at all
10/27/2018 04:32 AMPosted by DEFIANCE
Oh, well just burned myself here although I will say it's ridiculous that they would even consider nerfing an already pretty weak build lol. Kind of makes you wonder if they play/watch this game at all


Nah its cool, even I don't believe their reasoning one bit either. Archon drops arent as much BS as immortal SB although technically thats more of a cheese thing.

It's just that if THEY think that archon drops were a problem, nothing's changed since then, so their justification for removing the nerf doesn't pan out.
swarm hosts

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