Nydus: Realistic Unit Test can u kill it?

General Discussion
So i decided to drop cards into the table and see the real thing. What i'm gonna do here is, after testing all military units of protoss and terran agains a Nydus, which ones can take it easily, which ones have a bit of hard time and which ones just shouldn't even try to kill it.

The conditions for the experiment were the next ones:
-No attack/armor upgrades
-ALL Tech upgrades(cylones lock on,stim pack, adepts glaives) were being used
-The test was always an amount of the same unit fighting the nydus as soon as it starts to build up. In case the group of units was able to kill it, the number would go down to 1(example, 2 siege tanks in siege mode can kill it, the next test was 1 siege tank)
-In Very few cases were the units were doing it's job too damn well, i put the nydus in the opossite side of the map and made the unit travel to see if it can still kill it(in for example,traveling time between bases)

These were the results:

.Terran units to fight Nydus
Barracks units:
-Marines(VERY BAD): 10 weren't able to kill it, they were able with stim. The armor just completely destroys a marine damage.
-Reapers(BAD): due to no one using mass reapers to defense, this one was the only fighting unit i didn't test. i would guess it can do better than marines whitout stim tho.
-Marauders(GREAT): 2 marauders is the least amount that can kill a Nydus. One marauder with stim can also kill it.
-Ghosts(VERY BAD): 6 Ghosts could barely kill it. Goes whitout saying they are really bad at it.

Factory:
-Hellions(VERY BAD): NO! 5 hellions not even halfway to kill it.
-Hellbats(Decent): 3 hellbats with blue flame can kill a nydus pretty clutch.
-Siege Tanks(GREAT): 1 unsieged tank is enough to kill a nydus. if it is sieged, it kills it even faster(might need around 4-6 shots to kill it)
-Thors(GREAT): 1 is enough muscle for the job.
-Widow mines(BAD): even tho they are bad, if u mass widow mines and put them around the nydus,u are gonna enjoy the best fireworks of your life hahaha.
-Cyclones(EXTREMELY GOOD!): Two can kill it. One can leave the nydus with few hitpoints(around 50). 1 Cyclone with "lock on"(whitout upgrade) can kill it barely. 1 Cyclone with upgrade and using lock on can kill it easily even travelling from 1º to 2º base.

Starport
-Vikings(Decent): 3 vikings can kill it. 2 by very very few hitpoints(around 15 points) can't kill it before 4-5 roaches spawn.
-Raven(Decent): one turret can't kill it by the fact the time runs out. Two turrets can kill it.
-Banshee(Decent): 2 banshees can kill it. 1 can't.
-Battlecruiser(EXTREMELY GOOD with upgrade): Fun fact, whitout yamato, u might need 3 or more BC to kill a nydus. WITH YAMATO CANNON THO! only one bc is enough. it would leave the nydus with around 25 hitpoints or less.
Best counters by far: BC/Cyclones


Protoss units to fight Nydus:
Warpgate:
-Zealots(Decent/bad): 3 zealots with charge can kill it at a very clutch timing. Depending of the amount of time it takes the zealots to reach the nydus melee range the countdown can change a lot. 5-6 can be more than enough to kill a nydus
-Stalkers(Decent/bad): 3 Stalkers can kill it barely. 2 can't.
-Sentries(TERRIBLE!): when the unit count were above 14 and couldn't kill it was enough testing.
-Adepts(BAD): 5 Adepts(with upgrade) can kill it. 4 can barely kill it and allowing a few units out.
-HT(WORST IN THE GAME): Seriously. if u ever thought of using storm or HT basic atk to kill nydus, just make archons every game...
-DTS(EXTREMELY GOOD): 1 can easily kill it if close. 1/4 time of nydus done before DT starts attacking can also kill it.
-Archons(GREAT): 1 is enough.

Robotics Bay:
-Inmortal(DISGUSTINGLY GOOD): 1 inmortal, 4-5 shots can kill a nydus. #Livingtothename.
-Colossus(BAD): 3 colossus can kill it.
-Disruptors(Decent): 2 shots can leave it in the "workers can kill it" range(10 hitpoints). 3 shots destroys it.

Stargate:
-Void Rays(DISGUSTINGLY GOOD): 1 void ray with prismatic alignment can easily kill it. Two void rays whitout using PA can kill it. two void rays with PA can easily destroy it travelling from 2º base to 1º base.
-Carriers(VERY BAD): seriously...6 carriers can BARELY kill it. just...no.
-Tempests(GREAT): 2 tempests can kill it. 1 can't but takes quite some health(leaves it around 20-25% hitpoints left)
-Oracles(SURPRISINGLY GOOD): 1 oracle can easily kill a nydus. 2 or more can probably travel from 3º to 1º base and still kill it.
-Mothership(?????): 6 Motherships can kill it. #Memefails
.Best counters by FAR: Inmortal, Void ray, Oracle, DT.

And that is all the test done with Nydus, hope u guys enjoy this. Any set of unit u would like to add for the test is more that welcome!
So you just need 2 Maurauders eh?

That’s weird... by reading this forum I was sure you could pop your Nydus right into a tank line and be fine.
03/05/2019 04:20 PMPosted by Velitey
So you just need 2 Maurauders eh?

That’s weird... by reading this forum I was sure you could pop your Nydus right into a tank line and be fine.

No need to be ironic. Rests to see if those Marauders were in the exact place of the Nydus. The real-world experiment must take into account the time lost in reaction and time travelled to reach the Nydus.
I doubt a competent zerg player would see a bunch of Marauders and decide to pop the Nydus right next to them.
The OP has done a good job and has even tried at some extent to account for what i mentioned at the begining.
Dude dont even bother with trying to provide unbiased info...

The real issue is that z has a means of agression, that is not;

-shooving all units up a ramp into a walloff with things like tanks and shield batteries providing cost effective defense

-minimum 500/500 spent in mutas to hopefully get the same type of harrassment done as an Oracle or wm drop, overspending and much later than t an p counterparts
03/05/2019 04:33 PMPosted by JerBear
Dude dont even bother with trying to provide unbiased info...

Already did xd

03/05/2019 04:30 PMPosted by Gooba
No need to be ironic. Rests to see if those Marauders were in the exact place of the Nydus. The real-world experiment must take into account the time lost in reaction and time travelled to reach the Nydus.


Yep,as i said "The test was always an amount of the same unit fighting the nydus as soon as it starts to build up" In case of travelling and reacting, 2-3(4 to be sure) marauders with stim should cut the deal easily.
03/05/2019 04:39 PMPosted by JustAStar
03/05/2019 04:33 PMPosted by JerBear
Dude dont even bother with trying to provide unbiased info...

Already did xd

03/05/2019 04:30 PMPosted by Gooba
No need to be ironic. Rests to see if those Marauders were in the exact place of the Nydus. The real-world experiment must take into account the time lost in reaction and time travelled to reach the Nydus.


Yep,as i said "The test was always an amount of the same unit fighting the nydus as soon as it starts to build up" In case of travelling and reacting, 2-3(4 to be sure) marauders with stim should cut the deal easily.

Yes, i read that. Your post is useful for people that need to build anti-nydus tactics and to know beforehand which units (if available) are best in carrying the task.

Maybe you can add stats even for Zerg units. Even our fellow zergs can fell victim to the shenigans of Nydus.
:)
Yep, literally requires 1 tank + viking to shut down.
The hero that SC 2 needed. Bookmarked.
03/05/2019 07:08 PMPosted by PointsThief
The hero that SC 2 needed. Bookmarked.
But not the one sc2 deserves....
03/05/2019 04:20 PMPosted by Velitey
So you just need 2 Maurauders eh?

That’s weird... by reading this forum I was sure you could pop your Nydus right into a tank line and be fine.

That's because they have been octuple expanding off of one tank and getting away with it because of how bad Zerg offenses are.
The reason oracles are so good is because their attack ignores armour. Also, note along with the widow mine thing, you can also siege a liberator on top of the worm and that will give Zerg a pretty rough unloading.
This experiment takes way too few realistic factors into account.

1. Reaction + time the units need to get to the nydus

2. Depending on the build order you will have different units at the timing the nydus pops. Most TvZ openers include Hellions, Marines and Medivac --> only bad units against nyudus.

3. Why did you even test it with all the units that are irrelevant for the early game? I mean nydus is only an issue in early game. Testing it with BCs, Thors, Carriers and Colossi seems weird to me.
03/05/2019 04:11 PMPosted by JustAStar
Stalkers(Decent/bad): 3 Stalkers can kill it barely. 2 can't

I think they trade better, but ok.

03/05/2019 11:09 PMPosted by ZergEasyRace
This experiment takes way too few realistic factors into account.
1. Reaction + time the units need to get to the nydus

Frist he test Units to check what work vs it. so you can use it in the realgame. For example you have 2 Marauders in your main and 4 between second and third when you see the nydus you can stim and kill. in the same time your main army push out. if a units better than a other you have more tiem to react, when you have this unit.

03/05/2019 11:09 PMPosted by ZergEasyRace
2. Depending on the build order you will have different units at the timing the nydus pops. Most TvZ openers include Hellions, Marines and Medivac --> only bad units against nyudus.

if we talk about a nydus rush yes. if we talk about a normal nydus is later you have tanks, one viking and 100% stim -> TechLab on Barrack or a cyclone.
is like BC rush-> hard to hold in early and if you don´t scout. But in normal game you have more counter option in the time when he came.

03/05/2019 11:09 PMPosted by ZergEasyRace
3. Why did you even test it with all the units that are irrelevant for the early game? I mean nydus is only an issue in early game.

again is a test so you can test with all units. And nydus can also use in mid late game. why some person say viper is a good counter vs Tank, when T push before i have lair, same.
03/05/2019 11:09 PMPosted by ZergEasyRace
This experiment takes way too few realistic factors into account.

1. Reaction + time the units need to get to the nydus

2. Depending on the build order you will have different units at the timing the nydus pops. Most TvZ openers include Hellions, Marines and Medivac --> only bad units against nyudus.

3. Why did you even test it with all the units that are irrelevant for the early game? I mean nydus is only an issue in early game. Testing it with BCs, Thors, Carriers and Colossi seems weird to me.


Not that i would someone with such an user name seriously.. but:

1. He tested it with traveltime between bases, if the units were good at killing the nydus.

Again, if you dont have vision over your whole base and not seeing that red dot on the minimap.. its your fault. Now you see, how its against drops/libs/warp prisms etc.

2. If the zerg rushes nydus, its really easy to scout. A fast lair and lack of a 3rd, while hes building many units. Then you can allrdy react by buildibg tanks/marauder. If you dont, you have to work on your scouting.

3. He tested EVERY unit, so why mock about it? Its nice to see, what every unit looks like against nydus, since nydus wont just pop in the early/mid game. Infact, the nydus in lategame is by far the strongest, since you can build several nydusses and also have a big enough army to threat every base.
03/05/2019 04:30 PMPosted by Gooba
03/05/2019 04:20 PMPosted by Velitey
So you just need 2 Maurauders eh?

That’s weird... by reading this forum I was sure you could pop your Nydus right into a tank line and be fine.

No need to be ironic. Rests to see if those Marauders were in the exact place of the Nydus. The real-world experiment must take into account the time lost in reaction and time travelled to reach the Nydus.
I doubt a competent zerg player would see a bunch of Marauders and decide to pop the Nydus right next to them.
The OP has done a good job and has even tried at some extent to account for what i mentioned at the begining.


Scout Nydus tech ————> look for spotters
03/05/2019 04:11 PMPosted by JustAStar
So i decided to drop cards into the table and see the real thing. What i'm gonna do here is, after testing all military units of protoss and terran agains a Nydus, which ones can take it easily, which ones have a bit of hard time and which ones just shouldn't even try to kill it.

The conditions for the experiment were the next ones:
-No attack/armor upgrades
-ALL Tech upgrades(cylones lock on,stim pack, adepts glaives) were being used
-The test was always an amount of the same unit fighting the nydus as soon as it starts to build up. In case the group of units was able to kill it, the number would go down to 1(example, 2 siege tanks in siege mode can kill it, the next test was 1 siege tank)
-In Very few cases were the units were doing it's job too damn well, i put the nydus in the opossite side of the map and made the unit travel to see if it can still kill it(in for example,traveling time between bases)

These were the results:

.Terran units to fight Nydus
Barracks units:
-Marines(VERY BAD): 10 weren't able to kill it, they were able with stim. The armor just completely destroys a marine damage.
-Reapers(BAD): due to no one using mass reapers to defense, this one was the only fighting unit i didn't test. i would guess it can do better than marines whitout stim tho.
-Marauders(GREAT): 2 marauders is the least amount that can kill a Nydus. One marauder with stim can also kill it.
-Ghosts(VERY BAD): 6 Ghosts could barely kill it. Goes whitout saying they are really bad at it.

Factory:
-Hellions(VERY BAD): NO! 5 hellions not even halfway to kill it.
-Hellbats(Decent): 3 hellbats with blue flame can kill a nydus pretty clutch.
-Siege Tanks(GREAT): 1 unsieged tank is enough to kill a nydus. if it is sieged, it kills it even faster(might need around 4-6 shots to kill it)
-Thors(GREAT): 1 is enough muscle for the job.
-Widow mines(BAD): even tho they are bad, if u mass widow mines and put them around the nydus,u are gonna enjoy the best fireworks of your life hahaha.
-Cyclones(EXTREMELY GOOD!): Two can kill it. One can leave the nydus with few hitpoints(around 50). 1 Cyclone with "lock on"(whitout upgrade) can kill it barely. 1 Cyclone with upgrade and using lock on can kill it easily even travelling from 1º to 2º base.

Starport
-Vikings(Decent): 3 vikings can kill it. 2 by very very few hitpoints(around 15 points) can't kill it before 4-5 roaches spawn.
-Raven(Decent): one turret can't kill it by the fact the time runs out. Two turrets can kill it.
-Banshee(Decent): 2 banshees can kill it. 1 can't.
-Battlecruiser(EXTREMELY GOOD with upgrade): Fun fact, whitout yamato, u might need 3 or more BC to kill a nydus. WITH YAMATO CANNON THO! only one bc is enough. it would leave the nydus with around 25 hitpoints or less.
Best counters by far: BC/Cyclones


Protoss units to fight Nydus:
Warpgate:
-Zealots(Decent/bad): 3 zealots with charge can kill it at a very clutch timing. Depending of the amount of time it takes the zealots to reach the nydus melee range the countdown can change a lot. 5-6 can be more than enough to kill a nydus
-Stalkers(Decent/bad): 3 Stalkers can kill it barely. 2 can't.
-Sentries(TERRIBLE!): when the unit count were above 14 and couldn't kill it was enough testing.
-Adepts(BAD): 5 Adepts(with upgrade) can kill it. 4 can barely kill it and allowing a few units out.
-HT(WORST IN THE GAME): Seriously. if u ever thought of using storm or HT basic atk to kill nydus, just make archons every game...
-DTS(EXTREMELY GOOD): 1 can easily kill it if close. 1/4 time of nydus done before DT starts attacking can also kill it.
-Archons(GREAT): 1 is enough.

Robotics Bay:
-Inmortal(DISGUSTINGLY GOOD): 1 inmortal, 4-5 shots can kill a nydus. #Livingtothename.
-Colossus(BAD): 3 colossus can kill it.
-Disruptors(Decent): 2 shots can leave it in the "workers can kill it" range(10 hitpoints). 3 shots destroys it.

Stargate:
-Void Rays(DISGUSTINGLY GOOD): 1 void ray with prismatic alignment can easily kill it. Two void rays whitout using PA can kill it. two void rays with PA can easily destroy it travelling from 2º base to 1º base.
-Carriers(VERY BAD): seriously...6 carriers can BARELY kill it. just...no.
-Tempests(GREAT): 2 tempests can kill it. 1 can't but takes quite some health(leaves it around 20-25% hitpoints left)
-Oracles(SURPRISINGLY GOOD): 1 oracle can easily kill a nydus. 2 or more can probably travel from 3º to 1º base and still kill it.
-Mothership(?????): 6 Motherships can kill it. #Memefails
.Best counters by FAR: Inmortal, Void ray, Oracle, DT.

And that is all the test done with Nydus, hope u guys enjoy this. Any set of unit u would like to add for the test is more that welcome!


Out of curiosity why didn't you test the Zerg units Zerg also play Zerg
The nydus really unveils just how terrible at the game all these whiners are. Making a viking or a Phoenix and killing overlords is too much to ask as far as they are concerned. Watching the minimap for a nydus, and right clicking on it? NEVER! This game has become far too catered to casuals.
03/05/2019 11:09 PMPosted by ZergEasyRace
This experiment takes way too few realistic factors into account.

1. Reaction + time the units need to get to the nydus

2. Depending on the build order you will have different units at the timing the nydus pops. Most TvZ openers include Hellions, Marines and Medivac --> only bad units against nyudus.

3. Why did you even test it with all the units that are irrelevant for the early game? I mean nydus is only an issue in early game. Testing it with BCs, Thors, Carriers and Colossi seems weird to me.


Yeah, but if you're patrolling units around (which based the amount of whine about the nydus you should be doing every game) you should have enough. Terran gets the easiest of the 3 for nydus defense. A tank put center of the base with spotter depots gets afk nydus defense. Zerg actually has the hardest defense due to lack of armor damage bonus on units, roaches are the most realistic defense and they do pretty crappy dps. Queens ling's and muta are all a joke, hydra roach can manage if you have some ready, of course lurkers can and bane's, but you're taking a bad loss by default using bane's seeing as the nydus itself costs 50/50 and the bane's cost 75/50 each and it takes 4. If you watch pro games you'll see the highest nydus completion rate in zvzs.
03/05/2019 04:11 PMPosted by JustAStar
-Siege Tanks(GREAT): 1 unsieged tank is enough to kill a nydus. if it is sieged, it kills it even faster(might need around 4-6 shots to kill it)

What? I was under the impression unsieged tanks have higher single target DPS than sieged tanks.
03/06/2019 01:44 PMPosted by madumlao
03/05/2019 04:11 PMPosted by JustAStar
-Siege Tanks(GREAT): 1 unsieged tank is enough to kill a nydus. if it is sieged, it kills it even faster(might need around 4-6 shots to kill it)

What? I was under the impression unsieged tanks have higher single target DPS than sieged tanks.


With the Nydus very high armor... the burst damage of sieged tanks is less affected by armor.

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