Viking or Thor in mech TvP?

General Discussion
If you go mech in TvP is it better to go viking or thor for anti-air?

Thors are good vs tempest and mediocre vs carriers. The problem is that they are very vulnerable to disruptors.

Vikings are good vs tempest but weak vs carriers. The problem is that they are very vulnerable to high templars.

So which anti-air unit is the go-to unit now in mech TvP?
Both bad.
Dont go mech.
01/30/2019 10:08 PMPosted by Ghost
If you go mech in TvP is it better to go viking or thor for anti-air?

Thors are good vs tempest and mediocre vs carriers. The problem is that they are very vulnerable to disruptors.

Vikings are good vs tempest but weak vs carriers. The problem is that they are very vulnerable to high templars.

So which anti-air unit is the go-to unit now in mech TvP?

Both can work but they are situational.

Thors can do very well, but can't chase things down or dodge. The new 11 range is surprisingly helpful against skytoss since you can zone them out a little.

Vikings are much more mobile but are very fragile.
I usually prefer Vikings as you can't catch warp prisms with Thors. Just tend to land them to protect tanks if Toss doesn't go for mass air. Neither Thor or Vikings do well v Carriers, you need battlecruisers, which is probably the biggest issue with mech v Toss.
01/30/2019 11:06 PMPosted by oldpainless
I usually prefer Vikings as you can't catch warp prisms with Thors. Just tend to land them to protect tanks if Toss doesn't go for mass air. Neither Thor or Vikings do well v Carriers, you need battlecruisers, which is probably the biggest issue with mech v Toss.


Well vs Carriers I have found that Thor/Mine is the answer. First let the mines blow up most of of the interceptors then focus down the Carriers with the Thors.

For some reason Viking/Mine does not work, but Thor/Mine does.
01/30/2019 11:18 PMPosted by Ghost
01/30/2019 11:06 PMPosted by oldpainless
I usually prefer Vikings as you can't catch warp prisms with Thors. Just tend to land them to protect tanks if Toss doesn't go for mass air. Neither Thor or Vikings do well v Carriers, you need battlecruisers, which is probably the biggest issue with mech v Toss.


Well vs Carriers I have found that Thor/Mine is the answer. First let the mines blow up most of of the interceptors then focus down the Carriers with the Thors.

For some reason Viking/Mine does not work, but Thor/Mine does.
Potentially because Vikings suffer much more from friendly Mine fire than Thors.

But yeah Disruptors make it a pain.
01/30/2019 10:08 PMPosted by Ghost
Vikings are good vs tempest


What
01/30/2019 11:55 PMPosted by JackONeill
01/30/2019 10:08 PMPosted by Ghost
Vikings are good vs tempest


What


They are if Tempest have no splash support.
01/31/2019 12:11 AMPosted by Ghost
They are if Tempest have no splash support.


Yeah because by the time tempests are out protoss generally has no splash for fights. Not even factoring in revelation + 6 range advantage/kiting
01/30/2019 10:08 PMPosted by Ghost
is it better to go viking or thor for anti-air?
I never answered this, but I probably should as a Mech TvP player. I typically go for Thor/Mine for AA, but in the endgame I try to mass Liberators. Enough Libs and you have the splash to deal with pretty much any air army in a few shots, especially with AAM. They're more durable than Vikings against Storms and don't have to deal with Disruptors or any other ground-to-ground threat. A few can be used to help zone against ground units and spellcasters, though you still probably want additional means to deal with HT if you're using Libs for AA mainly.
01/31/2019 02:24 AMPosted by JackONeill
01/31/2019 12:11 AMPosted by Ghost
They are if Tempest have no splash support.


Yeah because by the time tempests are out protoss generally has no splash for fights. Not even factoring in revelation + 6 range advantage/kiting

Tempests are a lot slower than Vikings, they were quite a bit slower before they got nerfed even.

And typically, by the time you go splash into tempests, you are looking at the 15+ minute mark. And by that time, if you can’t deal with tempest/storm, I can’t fathom how you mech against Brood Lord/Viper, except possibly that you don’t but instead rely on hellions.
01/31/2019 08:32 AMPosted by WireBender
And typically, by the time you go splash into tempests, you are looking at the 15+ minute mark. And by that time, if you can’t deal with tempest/storm, I can’t fathom how you mech against Brood Lord/Viper, except possibly that you don’t but instead rely on hellions.
It's a bit different when the spellcaster is vulnerable to the Terran AA unit (and the Viper is vulnerable to both Thors and Vikings). Approaching with Vikings against BL/Viper is much safer than against Tempest/Storm, and BL/Viper can't pick off your air units from afar when you're waiting to get into a better position to engage.
01/31/2019 09:29 AMPosted by NinjaDuckBob
01/31/2019 08:32 AMPosted by WireBender
And typically, by the time you go splash into tempests, you are looking at the 15+ minute mark. And by that time, if you can’t deal with tempest/storm, I can’t fathom how you mech against Brood Lord/Viper, except possibly that you don’t but instead rely on hellions.
It's a bit different when the spellcaster is vulnerable to the Terran AA unit (and the Viper is vulnerable to both Thors and Vikings). Approaching with Vikings against BL/Viper is much safer than against Tempest/Storm, and BL/Viper can't pick off your air units from afar when you're waiting to get into a better position to engage.

I mean, it’s not as far as tempests, but abduct can definitely pick your units off from pretty far, and parasitic bomb follows the Vikings unlike storm and does 50% more damage.

Corruptors also give Zerg a nice big cheap meatwall to put in front of their other air units to keep the Vikings at bay, and as for a ground based spell caster... reason number 57 why I almost always make infestors over vipers.
I mean, it’s not as far as tempests, but abduct can definitely pick your units off from pretty far, and parasitic bomb follows the Vikings unlike storm and does 50% more damage.

Corruptors also give Zerg a nice big cheap meatwall to put in front of their other air units to keep the Vikings at bay, and as for a ground based spell caster... reason number 57 why I almost always make infestors over vipers.

Ghosts >>> Vikings
Personally I build only one Viking in TvZ - to shoot down 1 or hopefully 2 Overlords.

Its amazing in a bad way that Terran dedicated anti-air fighter is so weak against either Zerg or Protoss air that it doesn't make sense to make them.
01/31/2019 08:32 AMPosted by WireBender
01/31/2019 02:24 AMPosted by JackONeill
...

Yeah because by the time tempests are out protoss generally has no splash for fights. Not even factoring in revelation + 6 range advantage/kiting

Tempests are a lot slower than Vikings, they were quite a bit slower before they got nerfed even.

And typically, by the time you go splash into tempests, you are looking at the 15+ minute mark. And by that time, if you can’t deal with tempest/storm, I can’t fathom how you mech against Brood Lord/Viper, except possibly that you don’t but instead rely on hellions.

The problem is that closing that 6 range gap required you to chase Tempests deep into enemy territory. Tempests could hit and run without losing much speed; and the Vikings needed a ridiculously long time to catch up if the Tempests were just fleeing over their allies.

That "minor" speed and acceleration nerf to the Tempest cut the time it takes Vikings to retaliate against Tempests by about half; so they can serve as a more realistic counter.

Zerg doesn't have a 6 range advantage over Vikings like Tempests do. Corruptors are annoying, but they can be dealt with. Vipers can hit your forces with PB or other spells, but they will take a lot of damage in the process; and you can double up with Thors and Vikings to punish them (Thors hit first, and the Vipers take a lot of damage whether they go after the Vikings with PB or the Thors with Abduct.
01/31/2019 04:20 PMPosted by TerranicII

Zerg doesn't have a 6 range advantage over Vikings like Tempests do. Corruptors are annoying, but they can be dealt with. Vipers can hit your forces with PB or other spells, but they will take a lot of damage in the process; and you can double up with Thors and Vikings to punish them (Thors hit first, and the Vipers take a lot of damage whether they go after the Vikings with PB or the Thors with Abduct.

Viper on suicide mission can take 2 Thors with it. Even with 11 range Thors, thats why building Thors in TvZ is still not optimal even with higher range. They just get picked off one Viper for Two Thors.
02/01/2019 02:34 AMPosted by Platys
01/31/2019 04:20 PMPosted by TerranicII

Zerg doesn't have a 6 range advantage over Vikings like Tempests do. Corruptors are annoying, but they can be dealt with. Vipers can hit your forces with PB or other spells, but they will take a lot of damage in the process; and you can double up with Thors and Vikings to punish them (Thors hit first, and the Vipers take a lot of damage whether they go after the Vikings with PB or the Thors with Abduct.

Viper on suicide mission can take 2 Thors with it. Even with 11 range Thors, thats why building Thors in TvZ is still not optimal even with higher range. They just get picked off one Viper for Two Thors.

That may be the case.

Also, if your opponent has Infestors you should basically avoid Thors and Battlecruisers like the plague. Neural Parasite is extremely good against them; and it is hard to keep those units close enough to Tanks and Liberators to kill off the Infestors before they do much damage to your own forces. Vipers are a threat there too, because the closer they can get to your Tanks, the more easily they can blind them.

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