Post IEM Katowice discussion

General Discussion
It was a great tournament- lots of memorable games, and SoO finally winning was really sweet. Serral-SoO was a series for the ages.

But,like a lot of others in the community, I do agree the struggles of every terran player really overshadowed a phenomenal event. It was really shocking to see Innovation, Gumiho and Maru fail to make it out of groups.

Terran players just seemed behind in every TvZ and TvP regardless of how they opened.
You do not need to bring the Infestor at 0 energy. LOL. Just a little below the energy level that they need for the spell.
03/03/2019 05:59 PMPosted by Gooba
You do not need to bring the Infestor at 0 energy. LOL. Just a little below the energy level that they need for the spell.


Indeed, this is true - which for a full energy infestor is still two EMPs.
03/03/2019 06:00 PMPosted by Miro
03/03/2019 05:59 PMPosted by Gooba
You do not need to bring the Infestor at 0 energy. LOL. Just a little below the energy level that they need for the spell.


Indeed, this is true - which for a full energy infestor is still two EMPs.


That happens in extreme cases. Zerg tries to use Infestors when need arises, they do not wait for 200 energy to engage.
The same with all energy-based casters. Hardly you can find an active protoss with Templars full of 200 energy.
I can guarantee you about this from the new interaction HT (Feedback)/Infestor. After the butchering of FB the mortality of Infestors went from 80% in less than 10%.
Now it is preferable to not bother with FB for killing them but even a Storm performs better.
03/03/2019 12:26 PMPosted by Raver
Obviously Mech viability will help, but I'm just doubtful the balance team will seriously undertake it because they've been promising it since WoL and haven't made Mech viable in TvP once since then. What makes you think that they will suddenly listen to you and do it now?

Because I figured out the exact changes to make it viable as a composition in TvP. No protoss nerfs required or extreme terran buffs required either.
03/03/2019 06:08 PMPosted by MyOhMind
03/03/2019 12:26 PMPosted by Raver
Obviously Mech viability will help, but I'm just doubtful the balance team will seriously undertake it because they've been promising it since WoL and haven't made Mech viable in TvP once since then. What makes you think that they will suddenly listen to you and do it now?

Because I figured out the exact changes to make it viable as a composition in TvP. No protoss nerfs required or extreme terran buffs required either.

And which are those "moderate terran buffs"?
03/03/2019 06:11 PMPosted by Gooba
03/03/2019 06:08 PMPosted by MyOhMind
...
Because I figured out the exact changes to make it viable as a composition in TvP. No protoss nerfs required or extreme terran buffs required either.

And which are those "moderate terran buffs"?

You can see for yourself in the Better Game Balance mod. TvP Mech is viable and ZvT Lurkers are viable. For Protoss it's still a WIP because I want to get the changes for them right, like I did for the other races changes.
03/03/2019 06:30 PMPosted by MyOhMind
03/03/2019 06:11 PMPosted by Gooba
...
And which are those "moderate terran buffs"?

You can see for yourself in the Better Game Balance mod. TvP Mech is viable and ZvT Lurkers are viable. For Protoss it's still a WIP because I want to get the changes for them right, like I did for the other races changes.


You have no patch notes or anything in the mod; how are we supposed to "see for ourselves"; just list out the changes here.
03/03/2019 07:14 PMPosted by llllllllllll


You have no patch notes or anything in the mod


I need to figure out how to add those to the mod somewhere. Been so focused on working on it that I forgot about that.

[quote="207697679185"]how are we supposed to "see for ourselves"; just list out the changes here.

By playing the mod and seeing what you notice, also I plan on making a thread or two about the changes in the mod on here.
03/03/2019 07:14 PMPosted by llllllllllll
03/03/2019 06:30 PMPosted by MyOhMind
...
You can see for yourself in the Better Game Balance mod. TvP Mech is viable and ZvT Lurkers are viable. For Protoss it's still a WIP because I want to get the changes for them right, like I did for the other races changes.


You have no patch notes or anything in the mod; how are we supposed to "see for ourselves"; just list out the changes here.

No need, i will tell you: BC: damage 25/30, Yamoto 600, cost 200/100, supply 4. Thor: speed 7.5, cost 100/100, supply 3. Tank hovers while firing and Radius X2.
Lib: damage 120, fires twice each second.
03/03/2019 07:23 PMPosted by Gooba
03/03/2019 07:14 PMPosted by llllllllllll
...

You have no patch notes or anything in the mod; how are we supposed to "see for ourselves"; just list out the changes here.

No need, i will tell you: BC: damage 25/30, Yamoto 600, cost 200/100, supply 4. Thor: speed 7.5, cost 100/100, supply 3. Tank hovers while firing and Radius X2.
Lib: damage 120, fires twice each second.

None of the units you listed got any changes.
03/03/2019 04:33 PMPosted by Gooba
Very strange the Bourne reflection. It's a pity that this is only valid for TvZ. Maybe he can comment about the delusion of his terran-collegues that are convinced that Ghost (EMP) and HT (Feedback) have not the same relationship, not considering the huge advantage of Ghosts in other directions (speed, +1 range, invisibility).


You don't use Templar to counter ghosts. You use disruptors, Carriers (late game), oracles for reveal.
03/03/2019 05:29 PMPosted by Lethe
The problem is not that liberator/ghost is broken though, more that zerg has no anti caster or reliable aa splash which has been a problem with the race since wol


Are you still playing hots? or do you actually think that's the case?
03/04/2019 06:19 AMPosted by llllllllllll
03/03/2019 04:33 PMPosted by Gooba
Very strange the Bourne reflection. It's a pity that this is only valid for TvZ. Maybe he can comment about the delusion of his terran-collegues that are convinced that Ghost (EMP) and HT (Feedback) have not the same relationship, not considering the huge advantage of Ghosts in other directions (speed, +1 range, invisibility).


You don't use Templar to counter ghosts. You use disruptors, Carriers (late game), oracles for reveal.

I know that. My point was in the relationship between point attack spell vs. AOE spells. We both agree that AOE spells take precedence (in ease of application) vs. point-attack one.
Some other people have different perspective.
03/04/2019 06:30 AMPosted by thrasher
03/03/2019 05:29 PMPosted by Lethe
The problem is not that liberator/ghost is broken though, more that zerg has no anti caster or reliable aa splash which has been a problem with the race since wol


Are you still playing hots? or do you actually think that's the case?


Bro, BRO, BrOH!

Spells that have to be cast preemptively (EMP) are much easier to cast than units that have the initiative. What's that old saying "reaction beats action." Like if I'm pointing a gun at you and you are pointing one at me and you decide to shoot first, I will always hit you first. That's the golden rule of tactical shooting. Always be the last one out of the holster.

Also, you have to siege liberators individually. That's WAY easier than... Well there's not even a remotely similar tactic from Zerg... Why? Because Zerg doesn't anything THAT EASY!
03/03/2019 11:12 AMPosted by Instinctz
03/03/2019 10:53 AMPosted by Raver
I agree with the premise of the thread that having more tournaments with a mix of Koreans and foreigners would be a good thing as there isn't enough of them. However, Terran under performance due to the highly likely factor of imbalance definitely ruined IEM. I hope the balance team addresses this issue appropriately in the near future.


Sure go ahead. Buff terran. Make sure zerg actually gets a counter to ghost liberator while your at it.

Ling-Bane-Hydra-Viper and a bit of micro and multitask
With "highly likely" can be pumped some propaganda, not SC2 Balance. Terrans just need to use the tools that they already have (and have more than enough).
It is so funny to hear whineterrans that are dehydrated by lost tears to respond to their opponents:
===============
Sure go ahead. Buff terran. Make sure zerg actually gets a counter to ghost liberator while your at it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ling-Bane-Hydra-Viper and a bit of micro and multitask
========================================================

This is so rich, they can't even notice the irony of their position. Maybe they consider themselves more deserving of attention. Their flowchart is as follows:

1. Zerg complains ------> BS, L2P
2. Protoss complains ----> BS, L2P
3. Terrans complain ------------> Help, OMG, this is the End of the World.

No surprise the majority of the forum is disgusted with such unsavory characters and does not take them seriously!
03/04/2019 06:30 AMPosted by thrasher
Are you still playing hots? or do you actually think that's the case?


Is there an argument you're making, or are you just spouting unsubstantiated bull!@#$?
03/03/2019 07:22 PMPosted by MyOhMind
03/03/2019 07:14 PMPosted by llllllllllll


You have no patch notes or anything in the mod


I need to figure out how to add those to the mod somewhere. Been so focused on working on it that I forgot about that.

[quote]
how are we supposed to "see for ourselves"; just list out the changes here.

By playing the mod and seeing what you notice, also I plan on making a thread or two about the changes in the mod on here.


lol "seeing what people notice" is not really a good way of promoting your mod; you may have included changes people will never see or even know about; I'm not going to blindly play a mod with unlisted changes (for all I know you doubled the speed of medivacs or something). You say you're still working on your Protoss changes, so I'm not sure how you "balanced" Z and T with pending Protoss changes (as these changes would affect any changes you already made to Z and T). I'm genuinely curious to see what these handful of changes are that you think will "make mech viable in TvP" and create a better game for all three races.
He is afraid of disclosing the atrocities over protoss race and is hoping to catch somebody by surprise, just ambushing.
Last year in his "Better game balance" he removed the Mothership with the rationale that terrans have detection and that unit is useless......
I fought for 2 weeks for the existence of the Mothership but the genius did not move a millimeter and i gave-up.

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