Terran as a Mech Player

General Discussion
Now before I go ranting I just want to say that I find Cyclones very difficult to use in this current patch, however, I use them as a means to opening up mech vs. protoss. Now that the Cyclone upgrade has been changed to a whopping over 100 seconds of research time I noticed that mech openers are now completely nonviable.

The changes to the Blink / Warp Gate means essentially all protoss players now open mass blink stalkers. The cheap robotics means that proxy robo gets dropped faster than normal and the cheap robo doesn't lose value until 2 immortals come out which at that point 2 immortal warp prism drop kills you. When this happens well.... I still have 40 more seconds on my cyclones research and thus I can't kill the warp prism and take very heavy loses or just out right lose the game.

I am disappointed that blizzard would use zerg as an excuse to nerf the cyclones research. I don't see cyclones being very strong or viable vs. zerg early on and the meta had not developed enough yet to make such a claim. The only thing I've seen abusive was the BC rushing so it makes since to nerf the yamoto research (Which I was fine with).

I honestly hate how the patch notes come up with excuses to changes and then repercussions like this happen with a different race. Hell when you nerfed the thors armor by 1 I couldn't figure out why except that zerglings couldn't kill them fast enough?! Is that the excuse in the patch notes. You know a 3/3 hellbat kills lings in 1 hit right? So why would that even matter. We need that 2 armor vs. interceptors from carriers. Why should zerg be allowed to just a move ling bling vs. mech and win?!?!

The armor change should not of happened and the cyclone research should not of happened either. I really dislike the competency behind these changes.

Being 1 of maybe 2 mech players left in the NA scene every patch that comes out just drives me closer and closer to insanity. A lot of my other mech streamers have switched races or just stopped playing completely.

I love starcraft and I care about it. I don't want to be forced to play meta like everyone else does. I want to have fun and win and use strategy. This is a strategy game after all. I shouldn't be forced into only doing viking wars in TvT and playing only bio in TvP.

I have been with this game and franchise for over 20 years. Lotv is honestly going in the wrong direction if I am forced to proxy to win. I saw nothing wrong with this game 2 years ago. I would just revert it and nerf proxies honestly and then you won't have 3 top terrans anymore and a game that is a lot more enjoyable with variety, because right now its not.

I forgot to mention my win rate TvP is 16% currently 4/24 games all of which I only attempt to macro mech vs. protoss this season. I can get it up to 45-50% easy cheesing and proxy. But I specifically play this way on stream to entertain others. This is ludicrous if I can't even handle 5k players opening mech.
02/01/2019 12:46 PMPosted by RuFF
I forgot to mention my win rate TvP is 16% currently 4/24 games all of which I only attempt to macro mech vs. protoss this season.


You are willingly using a strategy that you know is not optimal in this meta...
Mech is a meme, just look at the number of upgrades and it hardly trades decent vs the other races/comps. Split upgrades, so many seperate upgrades, long building times, everything cost insane amount of gas : static, sensor tower. Toss and Zerg? just mineral defence.
Well, if you want to macro, Terran isn’t the race to play right now. Blizzard is too busy nerfing our allins because they think the Thor magically fixed our lategame.
If variety is the spice of life, then TvP is dead.
The real issue with ur play ruff is u still play hots. Stop missproducing scv for so long. Rush 3 bases like everybody and harass the protoss with banshee or hel runbie or something else. U cant blame the balance if u dont embrace the autistic gameplay of lotv. Its normal u dont win if u let ur opponent being far ahead in economy. If u cant kill him with 2 base play then go 3 base with marine tank opens into mech or bio. And a third base before "min 10" if possible.

Lets not forget late game terran aka raven was broken in hots and they did nothing to change it for years. U could definitly do way better even in the current patch than 16% in macro games vs protoss.

However, i do think tvp is incredibly annoying to play against, but its not an excuse to avoid improving ur basics as a sc2 player.
My dear frend and mentor Avilo told me the same thing. And after explained that we have no late-game he broke the keyboard over his own head and made that disgusting yell that he uses usually when he wins a game.
The balance team doesn't care about making Mech viable in TvP unfortunately. They said they did in the past, but that was either a lie or they tried and gave up.
02/01/2019 02:55 PMPosted by Raver
The balance team doesn't care about making Mech viable in TvP unfortunately. They said they did in the past, but that was either a lie or they tried and gave up.

I know how to make it viable, it requires no nerfs to protoss either.
The Thor really needs that armor back, even if they have to nerf the ground attack a bit then fine. The Cyclone is also much worse v Protoss than last patch and Raven needs a defensive ablity.
Why not try bio? I might actually agree with the apologists probably TvP isn't that imbalanced if you bio but still Protoss is allowed a lot more mistakes.

On the other hand, where are they to teach that balance only in GM it matters. Or in GM they would say. only on Maru level it matters, so never matters for anyone's playing then or say it only matters on Serral's level since he's best hahah
7/20 Terran here, plz fix game.
02/01/2019 12:53 PMPosted by Velitey
02/01/2019 12:46 PMPosted by RuFF
I forgot to mention my win rate TvP is 16% currently 4/24 games all of which I only attempt to macro mech vs. protoss this season.


You are willingly using a strategy that you know is not optimal in this meta...

The dude goes mass ghosts / nukes (I applaud the creativity) and then casually throws away ghost after ghost and nuke after nuke for almost no return, and then does a 180 and whines about how hard Terran macro is. I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt, because anyone who plays such a horrible early/mid game and then turns around and blames balance for it is someone who clearly isn't being fair.

02/01/2019 12:46 PMPosted by RuFF
I am disappointed that blizzard would use zerg as an excuse to nerf the cyclones research. I don't see cyclones being very strong or viable vs. zerg early on and the meta had not developed enough yet to make such a claim.

Terrans are spamming mass cyclones over every inch of every GM league, all the way up to 7k mmr on the KR server. There is a tremendous amount of data on how strong the cyclone is. The upgrade meant that if the terran ever gets in range of a base, it's dead. That upgrade is simply too powerful to allow it to come out that fast.

02/01/2019 12:46 PMPosted by RuFF
The changes to the Blink / Warp Gate means essentially all protoss players now open mass blink stalkers. The cheap robotics means that proxy robo gets dropped faster than normal and the cheap robo doesn't lose value until 2 immortals come out which at that point 2 immortal warp prism drop kills you. When this happens well.... I still have 40 more seconds on my cyclones research and thus I can't kill the warp prism and take very heavy loses or just out right lose the game.

Terran has never been dependent on the cyclone to stop proxy robo, which means you choose that style and thus put yourself at an disadvantage deliberately. That's not a design problem, that's a "I like cyclones and want to spam them from square 1, but I lose to this build and refuse to adapt, so nerf plz" problem. You also tend to go for marines, instead of a reaper, because it gets your factory faster. Why not try going for a reaper, and use that to look for probes out on the map? Top terran players do this all the time. Another option is to go for fast 2 hellions and then run them across the map and get all his probes. With no economy, you could just pull SCVs and never let the warp prism unload and you'd win as soon as you have a viking out.

02/01/2019 12:46 PMPosted by RuFF
Hell when you nerfed the thors armor by 1 I couldn't figure out why except that zerglings couldn't kill them fast enough?!

Thors losing to lings was the intended effect of the nerf. Blizzard specifically said the Thor was too good all around, and after that Code S match between Dark and Ryung who could disagree? The Zerg had a 20k bank and threw 3 maxed armies at 150 supply of mass thor and still lost. The zerg was also hugely favored to win that game, too. Let's not even mention how Thors deleted mutas from the matchup, which I am sure you were fine with. The thor was bad for the game and the armor reduction was a good change. If you don't want to lose your thors to lings, then include hellions or put your thors into medivacs.

02/01/2019 12:46 PMPosted by RuFF
Being 1 of maybe 2 mech players left in the NA scene every patch that comes out just drives me closer and closer to insanity.

Oh please, there are tons of mech players and many players who do both styles. Jason and Vindicta use mech, and they are 6k MMR. Frobie is another and he's 5.5k. Avilo is another and he's 5.3k. Mech being weak isn't the problem here. Your gimmicky styles got nerfed and you aren't adapting. Simple changes in your play can solve these problems.
Have you considered that the key to success with all the races is variety, and by playing 'mech' you are just painting yourself into a corner.

If I made a thread complaining that my zerg 'flyer' style suffered from the recent patch, you would tell me i'm an idiot.

Don't get stuck in your own mud and then blame god ya dummy
02/01/2019 09:04 PMPosted by Social
Have you considered that the key to success with all the races is variety, and by playing 'mech' you are just painting yourself into a corner.

If I made a thread complaining that my zerg 'flyer' style suffered from the recent patch, you would tell me i'm an idiot.

Don't get stuck in your own mud and then blame god ya dummy


Yeah I really don’t understand why Terrans force themselves to go for a bad strategy no matter what while definitely knowing this is a suboptimal way to win games.
02/01/2019 09:11 PMPosted by Velitey
02/01/2019 09:04 PMPosted by Social
Have you considered that the key to success with all the races is variety, and by playing 'mech' you are just painting yourself into a corner.

If I made a thread complaining that my zerg 'flyer' style suffered from the recent patch, you would tell me i'm an idiot.

Don't get stuck in your own mud and then blame god ya dummy


Yeah I really don’t understand why Terrans force themselves to go for a bad strategy no matter what while definitely knowing this is a suboptimal way to win games.

I go for bad strategies, such as mass slow lings vs protoss, but I would never blame balance if I lost. It's simply refreshing to play the game with artificial restrictions. I managed to get 5.5k while going 3 hatch before pool. I wanted to see how far I could get on the ladder, and I got pretty far because NA gms are weak. Robotically spamming standard builds gets really old very fast, though, but if I go 3 hatch before pool and then die to 1 adept the only person to blame is myself.
While i do agree that the cyclone absolutely sucks right now, this patch is, i feel, much much better for terran mech
It's great to finally feel like you've got at least ONE option versus skytoss.
Wtf is a mech player? Something you made up? Lmao.

My protoss bio strat isn't working for me either, waiting for blizzard buffs over here.

You choose to play something you know is suboptimal, and rather than accept that it's stupid, you whine.

lol...
blizzard gave terran everything, autoshooting mines, bc shoot on the move, you dont even have to aclick, cyclones choose target automatically (in the past you had to do it with hands) while having +50 dps, but its still
02/01/2019 12:46 PMPosted by RuFF
Cyclones very difficult to use in this current patch
, all you have to do with cyclones is simply move, you dont even need to aclick, why is it so hard for "the hardest race", but back to 2 robos, do you really try to counter robo with cyclones? its like defend proxy marouders with zealots... 2 robos will be always countered by marines and if protoss didnt die until you get stimpack on marines, he will 100% die after, but you are playing mech, how could i forget...
shooting yourself in the foot and blaming someone else. ah yes. the terran mantra

i too at one point was at 13% w/l ratio ZVT at the start of the year. now i'm at 25% ! SUCH IMPROVEMENT

do you know what i did?

CHANGED MY STRATEGY. because it obviously wasn't working. woooooahhhhhhhhhh... think about it. maybe you can too change your win rate with better builds ?

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