Terran as a Mech Player

General Discussion
02/02/2019 07:26 AMPosted by Leongrad
Wtf is a mech player? Something you made up? Lmao.

Mech is factory+starport units with occasional ghosts for support.

Bio is barracks units with factory+starport for support.

Mech players have existed since the dawn of SC1.

02/02/2019 07:26 AMPosted by Leongrad


My protoss bio strat isn't working for me either, waiting for blizzard buffs over here.


Protoss bio is gateway units
02/01/2019 12:46 PMPosted by RuFF
Cyclones very difficult to use in this current patch
, all you have to do with cyclones is simply move, you dont even need to aclick.

If you just A-move the cyclones they will die because of high fragility, you have to micro them to keep them alive.
02/02/2019 10:17 AMPosted by MyOhMind
02/02/2019 07:26 AMPosted by Leongrad
Wtf is a mech player? Something you made up? Lmao.

Mech is factory+starport units with occasional ghosts for support.

Bio is barracks units with factory+starport for support.

Mech players have existed since the dawn of SC1.

02/02/2019 07:26 AMPosted by Leongrad


My protoss bio strat isn't working for me either, waiting for blizzard buffs over here.


Protoss bio is gateway units


In BW every terran worth their salt would use either to win matches.

No one was retarded enough to willingly throw games because they where too stuck up in using their favorite unit(s) instead of winning.

There is no bio protoss play, it's a joke genius.
Nobody can win consistently with only zealot/adept/dt/ht in every matchup, but unlike with terran, there's no hysteria about it.

Nobody can win consistently with only zealot/adept/dt/ht in every matchup.

Zealot archon begs to differ.
02/02/2019 12:30 PMPosted by MyOhMind

Nobody can win consistently with only zealot/adept/dt/ht in every matchup.

Zealot archon begs to differ.


Why are you even attempting to argue this?
There's no way you're stupid enough to not know going zealot/archon in every matchup isn't efficient, yet here you are, exercising your pathological need to be an idiot.
I'm all for increasing army diversity in matchups but mech players need to calm down. No other race has the ability to support players using just half their tech tree every game so count your blessings. Other races, and even bio, need changes to make less used compositions viable in every match up too.
02/02/2019 12:30 PMPosted by MyOhMind
...
Zealot archon begs to differ.

There's no way you're stupid enough to not know going zealot/archon in every matchup isn't efficient

So "isn't efficient" that it's used in TvP,PvZ and PvP all the time.
02/02/2019 12:50 PMPosted by Ace
I'm all for increasing army diversity in matchups but mech players need to calm down. No other race has the ability to support players using just half their tech tree every game so count your blessings. Other races, and even bio, need changes to make less used compositions viable in every match up too.

I'm pretty calm personally, just pointing out that match up composition diversity in TvP is non existent.

Don't want to see Protoss nerfed either, I'm glad they have lots of options in the match ups they have now.
... , all you have to do with cyclones is simply move, you dont even need to aclick.

If you just A-move the cyclones they will die because of high fragility, you have to micro them to keep them alive.
die to what? they have longer range than immortals, that why immortals cant do anything to cyclones without prism, but because terrans are not able to emp templars, even if ghosts have longer range emp than feedback, then yeah cyclones die even having longer range... but his problem cant be solved with cyclones, he just needed mass marines
02/02/2019 12:50 PMPosted by Ace
I'm all for increasing army diversity in matchups but mech players need to calm down. No other race has the ability to support players using just half their tech tree every game so count your blessings. Other races, and even bio, need changes to make less used compositions viable in every match up too.

Of course they do. Zerg can stay on Zergling/Baneling/Mutalisk for most of the game against Bio. You certainly aren't forced to add Hydralisks, Lurkers, Swarm Hosts, Brood Lords, and Ultralisks just to compete in every match-up.

Protoss can also rely on Zealots/Archon/HT/Immortal against both Terran and Zerg.

As for Terran, there are several reasons why Bio and mech are split. You've definitely read those arguments before, so your ignorance on this topic is inexcusable.

For the most part, they rely on completely different methods of fighting to be effective. Bio is heavily dependent on its mobility to avoid splash damage, kite enemy units, and escape or avoid bad engagements.
Mech relies on a combination of highly durable front-line units (Hellbats, Thors, Battlecruisers, etc) and long ranged support (Tanks, VIkings, Liberators against ground, etc) to trade efficiently in combat. Mech sacrifices mobility for that durability and strength.
When you try to add Bio units to a mech composition it ends up a lot weaker, both because the Bio units are squishy, short-ranged glass cannons that can't fight from safety and don't last long; and because Bio units require a lot of Medivacs; which significantly lowers the supply of combat units.

Likewise, Factory units usually either cripple Bio's mobility (either the Bio abandons them while running or dies ineffectively), or they don't provide any significant advantage (Hellions don't add any significant DPS to the Bio comp, and Cyclones end up much less efficient because of the overlap with Marauders against ground or Marines/Vikings against air), or they have a drawback such as repetitive friendly-fire (Siege Tanks) that can be exploited by some compositions (Brood Lords, Chargelots with splash, etc) to such an extent that they become a liability for Bio. There are a few exceptions such as the Widow Mine (which has a single shot in combat, so it is much less likely to friendly-fire) or cases where the opponent doesn't have enough splash and damage to force Bio to retreat (in which case mobility is not an issue); but outside of those cases a Bio/Mech mix is usually much weaker than a pure Factory/Starport mix (allowing for Ghosts as a caster) or a Barracks/Starport mix.
02/02/2019 02:39 PMPosted by Farbros
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If you just A-move the cyclones they will die because of high fragility, you have to micro them to keep them alive.
die to what? they have longer range than immortals, that why immortals cant do anything to cyclones without prism, but because terrans are not able to emp templars, even if ghosts have longer range emp than feedback, then yeah cyclones die even having longer range... but his problem cant be solved with cyclones, he just needed mass marines
I take it you missed the "a-move" part? Cyclones do indeed die when a-moved.

That's irrelevant when talking about competent Terran players, though.
02/02/2019 09:39 AMPosted by Farbros
blizzard gave terran everything, autoshooting mines, bc shoot on the move, you dont even have to aclick, cyclones choose target automatically (in the past you had to do it with hands) while having +50 dps, but its still
02/01/2019 12:46 PMPosted by RuFF
Cyclones very difficult to use in this current patch
, all you have to do with cyclones is simply move, you dont even need to aclick, why is it so hard for "the hardest race", but back to 2 robos, do you really try to counter robo with cyclones? its like defend proxy marouders with zealots... 2 robos will be always countered by marines and if protoss didnt die until you get stimpack on marines, he will 100% die after, but you are playing mech, how could i forget...
Oh yes we sure have everything. Yamato double nerfed, 300 -> 240, Yamato research time nerfed, magfield research time nerfed, mines still aren’t a thing until mid game, Thor is nerfed, lost an armor and javelins are worthless. Yes, those pesky Terrans have everything. You say this right after Protoss got possibly the biggest buff they have ever gotten in this games conception.

Terrans have nothing. As soon as a buff to Terran happens the PPP and Zerg band together to make sure Terran is swiftly nerfed. Meanwhile, now we deal with 20% usain boltralisk speed lol wut? Golden armada is still GG, storm is GG, Protoss having a fully saturated third before Terrans third finishes is still GG. Yep we got everything man so good. So good indeed.
02/03/2019 07:34 AMPosted by BaconMonster
You say this right after Protoss got possibly the biggest buff they have ever gotten in this games conception.

[/quote]

Care to illuminate the public about which buff are you speaking?
02/03/2019 07:34 AMPosted by BaconMonster
02/02/2019 09:39 AMPosted by Farbros
blizzard gave terran everything, autoshooting mines, bc shoot on the move, you dont even have to aclick, cyclones choose target automatically (in the past you had to do it with hands) while having +50 dps, but its still ... , all you have to do with cyclones is simply move, you dont even need to aclick, why is it so hard for "the hardest race", but back to 2 robos, do you really try to counter robo with cyclones? its like defend proxy marouders with zealots... 2 robos will be always countered by marines and if protoss didnt die until you get stimpack on marines, he will 100% die after, but you are playing mech, how could i forget...
Oh yes we sure have everything. Yamato double nerfed, 300 -> 240, Yamato research time nerfed, magfield research time nerfed, mines still aren’t a thing until mid game, Thor is nerfed, lost an armor and javelins are worthless. Yes, those pesky Terrans have everything. You say this right after Protoss got possibly the biggest buff they have ever gotten in this games conception.

Terrans have nothing. As soon as a buff to Terran happens the PPP and Zerg band together to make sure Terran is swiftly nerfed. Meanwhile, now we deal with 20% usain boltralisk speed lol wut? Golden armada is still GG, storm is GG, Protoss having a fully saturated third before Terrans third finishes is still GG. Yep we got everything man so good. So good indeed.
you deal with ultralisk which got 20% speed, by losing -1 armour, while you got 1 attack for marouder instead of 2, which heavily increased the damage against ultras, you got mana return buff on the ghosts, so even if you cancel snipe you still get mana back, you got buff on the mineral cost of ghosts, so it was easier to transion into them, but you still dont use them in tvz as well as in tvp agaisnt ht, because the "hardest race" cant use more than 1 bind, its not fun if you cant click T and 10x aclick per second and win by that
02/03/2019 11:52 AMPosted by Farbros
you deal with ultralisk which got 20% speed, by losing -1 armour, while you got 1 attack for marouder instead of 2, which heavily increased the damage against ultras

Actually, that just brought the Marauder's damage back to 1 less than WOL/HOTS levels (Ultralisks have a cap of 7 armor now, instead of 6).

Marauders were clearly too weak against Ultralisks before that patch; which is why the Marauder nerf and part of the Ultralisk's armor buff were reverted.

Even with those changes, Marauders alone usually can't beat Ultralisks alone, requiring Liberator or Ghost support to add a lot more damage. That is irrelevant for mech (the topic of this thread) though, since mech doesn't need or use Marauders for anti-armor damage.

===================================================
Mech in particular can beat Ultralisks with a meat-shield (Thors and/or Hellbats) or wall, and focus-fire from Siege Tanks. Thors can "help" inflict some damage, but they don't trade well enough in combat for Terran to really rely on them to kill Ultralisks.
Liberators can also hard-counter Ultralisks, but only if they enter the targeted region--that said, Liberators are much easier to use and stronger with mech than Bio.

Mech can rely on its range to force the opponent to come to it. Mech can also use its meat-shield of durable units to force the opponent to fight in place if it fights at all; otherwise the opponent will continue to take damage from the Tanks and a couple liberators, or be forced to retreat. Liberators can abuse this meat-shield by targeting the area just in front of it (including part of the meat-shield). The Ultralisks and other units have to stay within that range to attack the meat-shield; which means that the Liberators can kill a lot of Ultralisks and other ground units in the meantime.

To contrast this with Bio, Bio must kite and split against Zerglings, Banelings, and Ultralisks in order to trade effectively. This means that Bio cannot just park under the Liberator's attack zone and let the Liberators pound away like mech. Bio has to retreat if the opponent continues to chase, and many of the enemy ground units (including Ultralisks) will survive long enough to get through the Liberator's target zone (whether that is because they didn't get hit enough times to kill them, or the Liberators simply targeted something else in the group).

tl;dr: Mech shouldn't have problems with Ultralisks. Bio has more trouble with Ultralisks, even using Ghosts and Liberators; but since this thread is about mech that's a mute point.
02/01/2019 12:46 PMPosted by RuFF
The changes to the Blink / Warp Gate means essentially all protoss players now open mass blink stalkers. The cheap robotics means that proxy robo gets dropped faster than normal and the cheap robo doesn't lose value until 2 immortals come out which at that point 2 immortal warp prism drop kills you. When this happens well.... I still have 40 more seconds on my cyclones research and thus I can't kill the warp prism and take very heavy loses or just out right lose the game.


So what you're saying is that the Protoss player was able to get mass stalkers, blink research (171 seconds) and a robotics with 2 immortals and a warp prism before you teched up to the cyclone upgrade (100 seconds) which comes from the tech lab already constructed from the barracks and is finished and ready to swap when the factory is done. I think we found your problem.
<span class="truncated">...</span>Oh yes we sure have everything. Yamato double nerfed, 300 -> 240, Yamato research time nerfed, magfield research time nerfed, mines still aren’t a thing until mid game, Thor is nerfed, lost an armor and javelins are worthless. Yes, those pesky Terrans have everything. You say this right after Protoss got possibly the biggest buff they have ever gotten in this games conception.

Terrans have nothing. As soon as a buff to Terran happens the PPP and Zerg band together to make sure Terran is swiftly nerfed. Meanwhile, now we deal with 20% usain boltralisk speed lol wut? Golden armada is still GG, storm is GG, Protoss having a fully saturated third before Terrans third finishes is still GG. Yep we got everything man so good. So good indeed.
you deal with ultralisk which got 20% speed, by losing -1 armour, while you got 1 attack for marouder instead of 2, which heavily increased the damage against ultras, you got mana return buff on the ghosts, so even if you cancel snipe you still get mana back, you got buff on the mineral cost of ghosts, so it was easier to transion into them, but you still dont use them in tvz as well as in tvp agaisnt ht, because the "hardest race" cant use more than 1 bind, its not fun if you cant click T and 10x aclick per second and win by that
Well go look at the game Trust vs Keen, ghosts don't help you when the high templar are all loaded into a warp prism... You should have wrote how Protoss got everything. Warpgate research reduced, blink reduced, robo reduced, tempest revamped, free observer speed, shield batteries, yes they even gave you a new building/unit something none of the other races ever got, whined until blizzard undid the prism range nerf and oracle nerf, whined about Terran proxies, got those nerfed... I mean do I go on?
<span class="truncated">...</span>
There's no way you're stupid enough to not know going zealot/archon in every matchup isn't efficient

So "isn't efficient" that it's used in TvP,PvZ and PvP all the time.[/quote]

How do you beat lurker/hydra with gateway the units?What about mech,hm?Tell us.[/quote]
02/03/2019 06:54 PMPosted by Squall
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So "isn't efficient" that it's used in TvP,PvZ and PvP all the time.


How do you beat lurker/hydra with gateway the units?What about mech,hm?Tell us.

Zealot-archon is the core of the army you build robo and templar to support it.

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