nydus in ZvP

General Discussion
02/25/2019 05:45 PMPosted by Crunch
Ironically enough, the new nydus is entirely stoppable in PvZ, if you open stargate. Two oracles kill it easily because they ignore armor. It's robo builds that are going to stumble against it mostly, which just further reinforces the stargate meta Blizzard has been trying to break.

I think the best change that could be made is to make the Nydus take longer to emerge when not placed on creep, and potentially remove the audio alert when it IS placed on creep. That keeps it strong as a mobility tool while weakening the in base offensive nydus.


Oracle's were changed so that they don't ignore armour anymore on their upgrades a while ago, weren't they?
02/25/2019 08:05 PMPosted by Miro
02/25/2019 05:45 PMPosted by Crunch
Ironically enough, the new nydus is entirely stoppable in PvZ, if you open stargate. Two oracles kill it easily because they ignore armor. It's robo builds that are going to stumble against it mostly, which just further reinforces the stargate meta Blizzard has been trying to break.

I think the best change that could be made is to make the Nydus take longer to emerge when not placed on creep, and potentially remove the audio alert when it IS placed on creep. That keeps it strong as a mobility tool while weakening the in base offensive nydus.


Oracle's were changed so that they don't ignore armour anymore on their upgrades a while ago, weren't they?

It was that way for a couple of weeks, later they reverted that BS and decided to nerff Stasis, Revelation and Damage several times.
Fun fact: in their best hypocritical tradition they made the damage from spell to normal but......."forgot" to increase the damage with the Air Attack Upgrade in Cyber.
02/25/2019 10:57 AMPosted by Dystopia
xD

Scarlett only wins casue of imbalance Nydus- all tournement only nydus

[/quote]

Nydus may or may not be a problem I don't know. After you start your post like this I can't take you seriously.

They just play the game and win in the current state it is. If you think something is OP in the current state then exploit it. That's how the meta is formed.

You act like it's a shame or she did something wrong or she didn't deserve it and your wrong.
I did live enough to see a protoss complaining about cheese.
02/25/2019 05:45 PMPosted by Crunch
Ironically enough, the new nydus is entirely stoppable in PvZ, if you open stargate. Two oracles kill it easily because they ignore armor. It's robo builds that are going to stumble against it mostly, which just further reinforces the stargate meta Blizzard has been trying to break.

I think the best change that could be made is to make the Nydus take longer to emerge when not placed on creep, and potentially remove the audio alert when it IS placed on creep. That keeps it strong as a mobility tool while weakening the in base offensive nydus.

Immortals in a warp prism work really well too. The problem in this game was that the army in the overlords prevented showtime from killing the nydus. It was only able to do that because it got a full unload before showtime decided to show up in his main base.
02/25/2019 11:22 AMPosted by tEhbAtZ
02/25/2019 11:16 AMPosted by escobari
...

He tagged, he saw, but the is that he cannot be in two places at once. zerg can just decide where the defense is weakest and commit there, not that that matters because forces are spread too thin in the first place

Then why was the bulk of his army at his natural, when attacks were hitting his third and main? He could have been in position, but he wasn't, because he pulled back. He misplayed, and there's no way around that fact.

I guess he did the right thing with the informarion he had at that precise moment. He saw the overlords but was he sure that they were fully loaded or just a ruse to take him out of position?
When you expect an attack that can hit the Main (Overlords) or the Third (Nydus) the correct thing to do is to keep the bulk of the army in such a position as to reach the battlefield in the minimum of the time. That position is between the Main and the Third - Natural.
Best way to defend a drop that big is to never let it succeed in the first place.Allowing scarlett to drop his main was huge mistake and showtime couldn't kill that nydus even if he wanted to.So why put yourself in such a bad position in the first place?
To be honest,showtime scouted the drop by accident and by that time it was already too late because scarlett was just seconds away from the main and he didn't have stalkers or archons in place to deal with the overlords before they finish unloading.Once the nydus finished it was all over.
That is why stargate/phoenix will always be the safest opener in PvZ.
02/25/2019 11:04 PMPosted by Squall
Best way to defend a drop that big is to never let it succeed in the first place.Allowing scarlett to drop his main was huge mistake and showtime couldn't kill that nydus even if he wanted to.So why put yourself in such a bad position in the first place?
To be honest,showtime scouted the drop by accident and by that time it was already too late because scarlett was just seconds away from the main and he didn't have stalkers or archons in place to deal with the overlords before they finish unloading.Once the nydus finished it was all over.
That is why stargate/phoenix will always be the safest opener in PvZ.

Showtime's been playing the same style of clunky protoss deathballing the entirety of his career. Literally one of the least diverse players I have ever observed. Other top Protoss like Mana have much more diverse playstyles. It's to be expected that someone who clings to one build / style will have a hard time adapting when the opponent has new tools that are specifically designed to exploit that style. Players like this don't solve the game strategically, they solve it tactically-- they find a style and find the way to play it perfectly. The meme of this is Byun and 3 rax reaper.

The ideal pro, however, has a very diverse set of strategies and even creates custom strategies depending on the person they are playing against. sOs is a great example, where he obliterated Maru at Blizzcon. The downside to this is that your practice is spread out across more game scenarios, so you will be less efficient in any given game scenario but your choice of what game scenario you want will be much better. Serral is the meme caricature of this. I've never seen anyone else with so many diverse builds and playstyles.

Another downside to playing strategically is that crafting custom strategies in a live tournament is very difficult, as the next person you will be playing against could be one of many people and you'd need to track far too many people and playstyles. When you craft a strategy for a new person and scenario, it's in essence new and you have no practice with it. That's why strategic players can see the most benefit from Code S, since they have time to study the opponent, craft builds and practice those builds vs team-mates. This is, again, another place where Serral is really baffling. No matter who he plays against, it seems like he almost always makes the perfect calls to obliterate the specific person.

Regardless, it's not surprising at all that Showtime was completely unprepared for the basics of the new nydus meta. I'd never seen this particular maneuver, but then again I am not a pro player who plays and studies the game 40 hours a week. This loss is Showtime's failure and not protoss's.
what you do vs drops ? let a view units in your base. Same vs nydus.
It's almost as if this is a new viable strategy for Zerg and players are now learning to adapt to it and create a new meta around it in the very near future.... NAHHH you're right, nydus is OP and no pro player will ever try to adapt to it and change their strategy based around it because it just physically cannot be done because it's just SO OP.
02/25/2019 11:04 PMPosted by Squall
Best way to defend a drop that big is to never let it succeed in the first place.Allowing scarlett to drop his main was huge mistake and showtime couldn't kill that nydus even if he wanted to.So why put yourself in such a bad position in the first place?
To be honest,showtime scouted the drop by accident and by that time it was already too late because scarlett was just seconds away from the main and he didn't have stalkers or archons in place to deal with the overlords before they finish unloading.Once the nydus finished it was all over.
That is why stargate/phoenix will always be the safest opener in PvZ.

But a lot of protoss' have started to go robo first instead of stargate agasint Zerg because of the threat of nydus all in. Not sure I agree with your comment here..
02/25/2019 01:42 PMPosted by Gooba
02/25/2019 01:26 PMPosted by Velitey
Scarlett is a better player than Showtime.

I doubt it. Still Scarlett is know to be a patch-zerg. I hope you will not tell me that she is better than SoS/Zest also (when abused some other BS that was soon patched).


Scarlett makes Code S like every season and has the been one of the top foreigners for years. It's ridiculous to call her a patch Zerg.
How many times have Protoss players won with warp prisms and Terrans with medivacs? Why aren't those balance issues? They happen every game so I don't want to hear crap about every Zerg using nyduses.
He played that game poorly comes out of position quite often and also lacked material scouting information.

Nidus strength had no effect on that win.
02/27/2019 10:59 AMPosted by MystiKasT
He played that game poorly comes out of position quite often and also lacked material scouting information.

Nidus strength had no effect on that win.

Quoted for truth.

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