As much as I love to troll

General Discussion
https://streamable.com/89plo

3 hatch before pool needs a nerf, i just rode this build to 5.5k with my offrace. I would say cost increase to reduce the frequency of spamming hatcheries, but that's just my opinion. I am beating 5.9k+ players with it! Blizzard, do something! Before the game DIES!

Its overpowered vs Terran, and very overpowered vs Protoss, even in ZvZ it's too good. A player should be punished for not allining vs 3 hatch, or not having the tools to deal with 3 hatch, but playing rock paper scissors with the build openers is cancer because he cannot counter 12 pool and 3 hatch with the same build.

Realistically execution of 3 hatch is extremely simple too... like any diamond player could beat some gm's if they know the right build.

Sorry to all my ladder opponents, it WAS funny though.
Players are SCARED of the TRUTH! 3 hatch causes ALL THE GAMES PROBLEMS and if it isn't remedied the game is DOOMED.
03/13/2019 08:48 AMPosted by tEhbAtZ
Players are SCARED of the TRUTH! 3 hatch causes ALL THE GAMES PROBLEMS and if it isn't remedied the game is DOOMED.


Why are u replying to your own thread? Thats very artistic
03/13/2019 01:16 PMPosted by llllllllllll
03/13/2019 08:48 AMPosted by tEhbAtZ
Players are SCARED of the TRUTH! 3 hatch causes ALL THE GAMES PROBLEMS and if it isn't remedied the game is DOOMED.


Why are u replying to your own thread? Thats very artistic


Artistic? I sure hope you meant that as some compliment in some weird sense as someone who knows art. Otherwise, spelling the word wrong is pretty autistic.
champ this is simply... DISCUSTING
03/13/2019 01:54 PMPosted by StvenSenegal
champ this is simply... DISCUSTING

3 hatch needs nerfs asap. Normally my mmr is only 5100 but it's boosted me to beating 5900. Zergs get literally an 800 pts boost if they just spam hatcheries. Disgusting.

03/13/2019 01:16 PMPosted by llllllllllll
03/13/2019 08:48 AMPosted by tEhbAtZ
Players are SCARED of the TRUTH! 3 hatch causes ALL THE GAMES PROBLEMS and if it isn't remedied the game is DOOMED.


Why are u replying to your own thread? Thats very artistic

I won't let the TRUTH be buried. I will not rest until every last patchzerg drops to silver league where they belong. Between nyduses and 3 hatch, zergs would have NEGATIVE mmr if they weren't boosted.
03/12/2019 10:44 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
https://streamable.com/89plo

3 hatch before pool needs a nerf, i just rode this build to 5.5k with my offrace. I would say cost increase to reduce the frequency of spamming hatcheries, but that's just my opinion. I am beating 5.9k+ players with it! Blizzard, do something! Before the game DIES!

Its overpowered vs Terran, and very overpowered vs Protoss, even in ZvZ it's too good. A player should be punished for not allining vs 3 hatch, or not having the tools to deal with 3 hatch, but playing rock paper scissors with the build openers is cancer because he cannot counter 12 pool and 3 hatch with the same build.

Realistically execution of 3 hatch is extremely simple too... like any diamond player could beat some gm's if they know the right build.

Sorry to all my ladder opponents, it WAS funny though.

Interesting build. Can I get a written build order for the first few minutes? How hard is it to hold all in with this?
This is funny.....
The three hatch build does exist but it's pretty easy to punish with an early allin or to mostly stay even by expanding faster (if players scout it instead of just doing their build blind).
At pro level I've only seen it once recently (I don't watch every game, so not giving this as a stat, but I do watch a few). Dark used it against Serral at the World Championship last year, in a ZvZ, but guess what, he still lost that game (Serral scouted it and got his own third a little later but still won)

Don't know the optimal build for it, but I practiced it against the Ai a few times as such
13 Ov
16 hatch (first expo) + send drone to third
16 hatch (second expo)
18 pool
17 extractor

Don't know an optimal pro version but this one is fairly solid in low leagues or against the AI.
The main issue is whether the opponent scouts it and reacts..... and decent players scout so, no, I do not believe you can gain a ton of MMR just by using it (and if you can it means even players at that level are just bad)
03/12/2019 10:44 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
https://streamable.com/89plo

3 hatch before pool needs a nerf, i just rode this build to 5.5k with my offrace. I would say cost increase to reduce the frequency of spamming hatcheries, but that's just my opinion. I am beating 5.9k+ players with it! Blizzard, do something! Before the game DIES!

Its overpowered vs Terran, and very overpowered vs Protoss, even in ZvZ it's too good. A player should be punished for not allining vs 3 hatch, or not having the tools to deal with 3 hatch, but playing rock paper scissors with the build openers is cancer because he cannot counter 12 pool and 3 hatch with the same build.

Realistically execution of 3 hatch is extremely simple too... like any diamond player could beat some gm's if they know the right build.

Sorry to all my ladder opponents, it WAS funny though.

LOL. Someone did the math on opening 3 hatch first compared to 2 and it wasn't a significant difference AT ALL. Do your homework first before spamming !@#$ :/
03/13/2019 02:16 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
03/13/2019 01:54 PMPosted by StvenSenegal
champ this is simply... DISCUSTING

3 hatch needs nerfs asap. Normally my mmr is only 5100 but it's boosted me to beating 5900. Zergs get literally an 800 pts boost if they just spam hatcheries. Disgusting.

03/13/2019 01:16 PMPosted by llllllllllll
...

Why are u replying to your own thread? Thats very artistic

I won't let the TRUTH be buried. I will not rest until every last patchzerg drops to silver league where they belong. Between nyduses and 3 hatch, zergs would have NEGATIVE mmr if they weren't boosted.

If it's so good, why don't pros do it every game against T or P? Can't wait to hear your response, been awhile since I got some laughs from you ;)
03/13/2019 02:27 PMPosted by Insomniac
03/12/2019 10:44 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
https://streamable.com/89plo

3 hatch before pool needs a nerf, i just rode this build to 5.5k with my offrace. I would say cost increase to reduce the frequency of spamming hatcheries, but that's just my opinion. I am beating 5.9k+ players with it! Blizzard, do something! Before the game DIES!

Its overpowered vs Terran, and very overpowered vs Protoss, even in ZvZ it's too good. A player should be punished for not allining vs 3 hatch, or not having the tools to deal with 3 hatch, but playing rock paper scissors with the build openers is cancer because he cannot counter 12 pool and 3 hatch with the same build.

Realistically execution of 3 hatch is extremely simple too... like any diamond player could beat some gm's if they know the right build.

Sorry to all my ladder opponents, it WAS funny though.

Interesting build. Can I get a written build order for the first few minutes? How hard is it to hold all in with this?


There's a lot that makes this build work, because it really shouldn't. It's a bad build, a REALLY bad build. You really have to maximize every advantage to make it work out right. You want your opponent as confused as possible, and you only reveal info that misdirects him. The goal of the build is to surprise them with a swell of lings (either plain lings, or 1/1 or 1/0) and do surprise damage while you get out mutas. This is basically a build that is designed to go mutas from 2 base without the possibility of dying to speed roaches. Going fast 2-base mutas is hyper-vulnerable to +1 speedroach timings. They literally just 1a into your base and you don't have the DPS to gun down roaches before they pummel literally your whole base, and this solves that quite handily and 2 base muta is a very strong build in ZvZ so being able to do it is quite nice. It also beats another weakness of 2 base muta which is a 3 base muta with only gas saturation at the third, which is basically identical to 2 base muta but the muta flock overtakes the 2 base version quite fast, but vs this it losses because it cannot handle the 1/1 ling swell.

You don't have to do it as 3 hatch. There's basically no reason to ever go 3 hatch in ZvZ. You cannot come out equal economically vs someone who opens hatch gas pool and then takes a fast third. This is especially the case for a 2 base 3 hatch. All it really does is make you auto-die to early pools. Even a 17 pool is dangerous, but a 14 or low will just kill you.

Ideally you want to go gasless 16 hatch 18 pool. 19 overlord and then bank 3 larvae for lings. Just make them blindly. You are now safe vs any form of aggression. Holding each of the various kinds is beyond the scope of this build. If no aggression comes, you use your overlords to push back queens and sneak the lings out and you can usually kill his third or at least soften it up a ton. Or you can reveal them, but pretend like you wanted to hide them, and make him think they are for forward banelings. You want to reveal the lings after his lings are way out of position, ideally when the hatch is about half health. The closer the hatch is to finishing before it dies, the longer you've delayed his third in essense, but the less likely it is to die. Halfway is a good compromise for 8 lings and probably a third way for 6. This softens his third up for the ling swell, keeps him busy so he isn't scouting and gives you a moment to sneak creep tumors out so you can more easily take a third base.

You pump drones and make 4 queens. The next 300 minerals becomes a macro hatch, unless you need your wall up and then it goes to finishing the wall. First natural queen either injects or places a creep tumor depending on if he did hatch gas pool (inject, tumor) or pool gas hatch (tumor, inject). The reason for this is to finish your wall before the first ling swell from him. If it's hatch gas pool, it usually comes after he takes a third, if he plays standard. Losing an inject isn't a big deal because of the macro hatch.

From there you take 4 gas when you reach ~20/20 saturation, and go up to a full 24/24 and 6/6 oversaturation. It puts your minerals almost as high as having a normal third while you should be ahead in gas income. When your third finishes you transfer down to 16/16 saturation and stay at low drone counts. The idea is that you trade cheap upgraded lings against his gas-expensive roach and hydra army while your muta flock grows. So you can actually "outmacro" a player with a bigger economy if it came down to it.

You can make a roach warren when doing the wall, and make a few roaches as a misdirect, and they can help at taking your third faster as well, but they significantly delay your 1/1 upgrades and cut into the size of your ling count. It can really help to get up your third faster, and is a VERY good misdirect since he sees the roaches, slow lings, and 1/1 being researched (which is assumed to be 1/1 for roaches). The roaches also make you safe vs a baneling bust which is what I was worried about that game (he did morph banes).

After reaching 24/24 and 6/6 saturation you start 1/1, then lair, then zergling speed. If he is going for a big roach swell (still on 2 bases, late third, you see roaches, wiggling evo chambers, lair at his natural, no zergling speed, etc) then you need to go 1/1 then zergling speed. If there is no third, I'd just go zergling speed and then +1 attack and a baneling nest to hold a super fast roach timing or a possible destiny-style slow roach speedling push. Burrow comes after lair and is super useful for both offense and defense.

From there, assuming he's playing standard, he will have +1 roaches and about 15 of them or so, or he will be going mutas and only have a few lings and banes. Your goal is to surprise him, catch him out of position, and shred a mineral line, kill a base, or something to that effect. I go for whatever I think I can get away with. Bases are more useful than drones, as they cut economy AND supply AND production. Drones only cut economy, and free up supply at that. If he is in position, then you burrow lings. And you make him run circles while you wait for your spire to finish (start it the moment lair finishes, followed by +2 melee attack and a baneling nest). If you can kill his lair before revealing burrow, he is SUPER screwed.

The worst case scenario is that he is prepared, in position and he just hammers the roach button. You bank money and if he pushes before your spire finishes, you hammer the zergling button. They build fast enough you can empty your 1k bank by the time he gets there and have a full surround which in worst case scenarios he wins slightly until the next round. If he delays, you make 10 mutas and they and your 1/1 lings can hold his push. If he doesn't attack at all, he is going for queen roach infestor or roach hydra.

If he was going for mutas, he just dies. If he has a ton of banes and zones you, then you use the lings to keep his mutas at home while your muta flock grows and then you take a good fight right as +1 flyer carapace finishes. You will overtake him in mutas since your 5th and 6th gases were later, but since he has to dump gas into banelings to defend vs the 1/1 lings. So you trade them out and make him make more.

vs roach queen infestor you only need to worry about a nydus or a slow queen push across the map. You spread overlords out and deny the nyduses. Super easy with 1/1 lings and banes and mutas. Once he slow-pushes with his queens, you simply base trade. His army is too immobile and 2/1 lings really SHRED through bases and workers. Furthermore, mutas can pick of running drones and mutas are a huge tool in base-trade scenarios just because they are so mobile and flying he cannot ever leave his new buildings without you killing them. He'd be stuck on his side of the map, in other words while you are free to rebuild on the other side.

This is just a brief overview of how the build works.

03/14/2019 06:42 PMPosted by SwankyTiger
If it's so good, why don't pros do it every game against T or P?

Here are 4 hatch before pool builds working vs 5.5-5.7k Protoss players (a lot of pros like CatZ are only 5.5k mmr):
01/17/2019 06:49 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
https://drop.sc/replay/9540081

As promised, 5.5k Protoss losing after I gave him TWO free hatcheries.

https://i.imgur.com/UngmRWP.jpg

5.7k Protoss just took a beating. Poor guy. Only gave him ONE free hatchery.

https://i.imgur.com/3IHyRXw.png

Officially have well over GM level MMR with a nice 75% win-rate. Lol @ the people who said it's harder to get GM now than in HotS. News flash, it's easier now than it ever has been since the talent has moved on to better designed games. With Activision taking over, you should expect the problem to exacerbate.
Thanks
Does it have no counter because it's such a new build and people don't know how to counter it? Or is it strong enough to become meta soon?
03/15/2019 01:58 AMPosted by Insomniac
Thanks

Lmoa... another patchzergs gonna help get this OP build NERFED.

03/16/2019 05:26 AMPosted by iLLuSia
Does it have no counter

Literally none champ. Might as well delete protoss and terran if this build isn't nerfed asap.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum