Medivac Upgrade

General Discussion
That's a boost upgrade? I thought it was an unclickable button![/sarcasm]

Maybe it could change the energy consumption rate for heal.
03/18/2019 01:08 PMPosted by iLLuSia
That's a boost upgrade? I thought it was an unclickable button![/sarcasm]

Maybe it could change the energy consumption rate for heal.

Medivacs already don't have energy consumption problems.
Then remove the upgrade. It's unneeded because Medivac is already a good unit by the arguments presented in this post.
The medivac upgrade is never used as the medivac boost is already on a super low cooldown. Boost in and when opponent comes to meet you just boost away again, no need for this upgrade. Regarding the extra healing it would give Terran a chance in the late game as bio currently has the weakest by far but tbh it would prob just mean Terran would stay on bio and not really try to transition out of it at all. Buffing other units would prob be a better shout to give Terran a better chance in the lategame.
03/18/2019 11:32 AMPosted by SymphoniC
In the live game? When? There used to be a Medivac starting energy upgrade in HotS.

*edit* I just looked it up myself. From December 5th, 2012 - January 9th, 2013, Caduceus Reactor did the following:

Health restored per second from 9 to 15.
Energy cost reduced from 3 health per 1 energy to 5 health per 1 energy.
Cost increased from 100/100 and 80 seconds to 150/150 and 110 seconds.

Are you actually serious when you say "A heal upgrade was tried, but no one got it either"? You are actually comparing one month of Heart of the Swarm beta testing to almost 3.5 years of live games played in Legacy of the Void.

Read that again: in 3.5 years of LotV, Rapid Reignition System has only changed one time, and that was a menial shift from ability duration to cooldown duration in November of 2018. Nobody has ever used the ability in any meaningful way during this entire time, but sure, I guess a healing upgrade was already tried, too (???).


The healing upgrade was tried, yes. But it was deemed to overpowered and immediately scrapped without any attempt to even try and make it work.
03/18/2019 09:47 AMPosted by SymphoniC
Why not re-work this upgrade to make it useful; e.g., allow the Medivac to heal two units at once, or perhaps simply increase healing speed?


Medivac healing increase was done I think during HOTS beta and it was SO utterly broken they canceled the idea. Medivacs could litteraly outheal any damage even STORM which is utterly dumb and gamebreaking thx but no thx no need this.

Balance Update #8
New ability: Emergency Thrusters
Speed boost that increases movement speed and acceleration to 4.25 for 8 seconds. 20 second cooldown.
The Medivac’s Caduceus Reactor upgrade at the Starport Tech Lab:
Health restored per second from 9 to 15.
Energy cost reduced from 3 health per 1 energy to 5 health per 1 energy.
Cost increased from 100/100 and 80 seconds to 150/150 and 110 seconds.
03/18/2019 09:47 AMPosted by SymphoniC
The medivac boost upgrade (Rapid Reignition System) may be the only upgrade in the game that is more of a meme than Neosteel Frames was. Why not re-work this upgrade to make it useful

I agree, medivacs should be as worthless pre-upgrade as marines are pre-stim and pre-combat shield. It would guarantee the use of that upgrade in every game.
The upgrade is generally too invasive to production for us to go out of our way to get it. We've done fine without the upgrade, so I can't see a reason for us to want to use Boost more often. If there was an upgrade to allow Medivacs to heal two units at once, then we'd sacrifice some production for it. As it stands, from what I've heard, is what if Terran could have Orbital Command as their default Command Center but start with zero energy. This way we save minerals on upgrading, do not lose time producing SCVs and do not start with a MULE.

Since popular opinion, so I've heard, regards Terran's economy more than much else.
IMO boost shouldn't be usable at all without an upgrade. And now I probably need an umbrella against the Terran whiners. But well, it's like...

You played chess with a chainsaw for SO long, you don't remember how much fun it is without it. Protoss warp prism blink-pickuprange, Zerg Nydus and Terran Medivac boost, all rife for nerf bat.

If nothing else, if this upgrade is so worthless, make it 25% cheaper.
I know precisely how to make the Medevac upgrade good.
Remove Tactical Jump, replace it with Ignite Afterburners, benefitting from the Medevac upgrade. The same ability Medevacs have, same cooldown, same speed boost, same everything.
Two birds, one stone. I think BC's with Boost instead of TJ would be way more interesting and way easier to balance, and it would make the upgrade itself very useful.

But for real, I hate TJ. Like 5 out of every 10 TvTs are some spaz trying to turtle to BC's with a planetary in their natural. It isn't imbalanced, it's totally beatable, but it's obnoxious as hell and it takes ages to kill them, because pushing into a nat against 4 tanks, a PF and several BC's is a great way to throw the game. To beat it you just have to camp at the bottom of their ramp and never let them take a third. You have to just sit there, until they mine out. And even then they usually try to float elsewhere.
03/20/2019 01:09 AMPosted by Crunch
I know precisely how to make the Medevac upgrade good.
Remove Tactical Jump, replace it with Ignite Afterburners, benefitting from the Medevac upgrade. The same ability Medevacs have, same cooldown, same speed boost, same everything.
Two birds, one stone. I think BC's with Boost instead of TJ would be way more interesting and way easier to balance, and it would make the upgrade itself very useful.

Hahaha xD done that in my mod loooong ago...

But.. who cares about that?
03/20/2019 12:55 AMPosted by iLLuSia
IMO boost shouldn't be usable at all without an upgrade. And now I probably need an umbrella against the Terran whiners. But well, it's like...

You played chess with a chainsaw for SO long, you don't remember how much fun it is without it. Protoss warp prism blink-pickuprange, Zerg Nydus and Terran Medivac boost, all rife for nerf bat.

If nothing else, if this upgrade is so worthless, make it 25% cheaper.

The fact that Medivacs even have a boost is a bit silly.

Medivacs were nerfed from 2.75 move speed (Viking speed) to 2.5 move-speed in WOL because drops were deemed too powerful.
Then they are given a temporary 4.25 move-speed ability in HOTS because drops are too weak. It would've made more sense to just buff their movement speed again. Maybe give them the same move-speed that Dropships had.
03/19/2019 09:13 PMPosted by Miro
03/18/2019 11:32 AMPosted by SymphoniC
In the live game? When? There used to be a Medivac starting energy upgrade in HotS.

*edit* I just looked it up myself. From December 5th, 2012 - January 9th, 2013, Caduceus Reactor did the following:

Health restored per second from 9 to 15.
Energy cost reduced from 3 health per 1 energy to 5 health per 1 energy.
Cost increased from 100/100 and 80 seconds to 150/150 and 110 seconds.

Are you actually serious when you say "A heal upgrade was tried, but no one got it either"? You are actually comparing one month of Heart of the Swarm beta testing to almost 3.5 years of live games played in Legacy of the Void.

Read that again: in 3.5 years of LotV, Rapid Reignition System has only changed one time, and that was a menial shift from ability duration to cooldown duration in November of 2018. Nobody has ever used the ability in any meaningful way during this entire time, but sure, I guess a healing upgrade was already tried, too (???).


The healing upgrade was tried, yes. But it was deemed to overpowered and immediately scrapped without any attempt to even try and make it work.


MyOhMind is in here repeating his mantra that "it was tried and nobody ever got it," while you and others have pointed out that it was scrapped because it was too powerful. Kind of funny.

At any rate, you'd think that they could perhaps keep the same idea but try a less powerful version.
03/20/2019 05:29 AMPosted by TerranicII
03/20/2019 12:55 AMPosted by iLLuSia
IMO boost shouldn't be usable at all without an upgrade. And now I probably need an umbrella against the Terran whiners. But well, it's like...

You played chess with a chainsaw for SO long, you don't remember how much fun it is without it. Protoss warp prism blink-pickuprange, Zerg Nydus and Terran Medivac boost, all rife for nerf bat.

If nothing else, if this upgrade is so worthless, make it 25% cheaper.

The fact that Medivacs even have a boost is a bit silly.

Medivacs were nerfed from 2.75 move speed (Viking speed) to 2.5 move-speed in WOL because drops were deemed too powerful.
Then they are given a temporary 4.25 move-speed ability in HOTS because drops are too weak. It would've made more sense to just buff their movement speed again. Maybe give them the same move-speed that Dropships had.


I was not a fan of Medivac boost when it was first implemented in HotS just because it made doom-dropping easier, and I generally don't enjoy volatility in SC 2. With that being said, with the speed and range buffs to so many units in the game (from WoL/HotS versions to now)--Corruptor, Oracle, Queen, Hydra, Mutalisk, Warp Prism, etc. etc.--the boost ability at this point is an absolute necessity. The upgrade, on the other hand, is not.

Also, a flat speed buff probably wouldn't do very well because Medivacs would out-run the Bio that they're supposed to heal.
03/18/2019 04:24 PMPosted by OldWhovian
Then remove the upgrade. It's unneeded because Medivac is already a good unit by the arguments presented in this post.


The upgrade could indeed be removed. Medivacs are good and don't need a buff on their own; however, I was suggesting killing two (or three) birds with one stone by taking an already-existing upgrade in the game and re-working it to make it actually functional. On top of this, such a buff that is geared toward the late mid-game and late-game may negate the need to nerf Protoss upgrade research time and allow for Terran's notoriously weak late-game army to be a bit less fragile.
03/20/2019 05:58 AMPosted by SymphoniC
At any rate, you'd think that they could perhaps keep the same idea but try a less powerful version.


Same thing happened with the Warhound.

Basically, Balance Team's motto - If it's Terran, remove it. Don't even try. If it's Protoss or zerg, keep it in no matter what!
03/20/2019 05:58 AMPosted by SymphoniC
03/19/2019 09:13 PMPosted by Miro
...

The healing upgrade was tried, yes. But it was deemed to overpowered and immediately scrapped without any attempt to even try and make it work.


MyOhMind is in here repeating his mantra that "it was tried and nobody ever got it," while you and others have pointed out that it was scrapped because it was too powerful. Kind of funny.

It was both. Rarely got but broken when got.
Make medivacs able to land like vikings!
03/20/2019 07:35 AMPosted by MyOhMind
03/20/2019 05:58 AMPosted by SymphoniC
...

MyOhMind is in here repeating his mantra that "it was tried and nobody ever got it," while you and others have pointed out that it was scrapped because it was too powerful. Kind of funny.

It was both. Rarely got but broken when got.


It was SO powerful that NOBODY ever wanted to research it. Gotchu. Go post about Mech in TvP or something. You've lost all credibility here.
03/20/2019 07:55 AMPosted by Schaber
Make medivacs able to land like vikings!


I support this, but only if the Medivac's pilot leaves the cockpit and slaps the enemy.

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