Let's be real

General Discussion
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04/08/2019 07:08 AMPosted by Motion
If Terran is so easy what explains their lack of results in both wcs eu and na? Why are former kespa koreans the only ones that can wield Terran power? This question you will dodge.

I will answer you, they are BADDDD but Protoss are not worse in GSL to not win enough. it is just OP Terran and Zerg that stop them.

If Classic won I would say nothing because Classic is on par with sOs and Stats in TvP, Trap is not.

[SARCASM]But since Maru would win, let's pull the Maru winrate ignore Terran anywhere else. And because Maru may win over Zerg an+d Protoss it is not that he is so good (honestly I always thought he only wins off cheese but recent matches proved otherwise), but because T simply too good thus Maru winning over all others means T is just OP. So all need to l2p in WCS on ladder and everywhere else, since their equal results vs similar skill players do not mean race imbalance

So indeed, let's buff Protoss because it is clearly not their hard working stopping them from winning, it is that T too good. Do we have the data whether they try hard enough? Or perhaps if they are not good enough for Maru we have to buff other races?[/SARCASM]

On a serious note, I do not mind they undo the protoss nerf on upgrade times and focus better to make protoss less forgiving in expanding while even doing big damage without punishment, it either has to be more harassment at the cost of 1 expand less OR less damage to get those more expands, can't have both! ~Right now even after cheesing and proxying seeing even on Inno streams, Protoss is somehow on 3 bases while Terran after defending is at 2 bases, what about Protoss investments in proxy and cheese units i.e resources on teching, how can they still expand on more bases?
04/08/2019 07:08 AMPosted by Motion
If Terran is so easy what explains their lack of results in both wcs eu and na? Why are former kespa koreans the only ones that can wield Terran power? This question you will dodge.
because korean terrans build ghosts, libs and other t2-t3 units, while europe terrans like uthermal play marine-tanks against ultras-banelings-hydras-infestors-vipers for 20 minutes from 3 bases (sometimes 2) and logicaly lose
04/08/2019 07:53 AMPosted by Farbros
because korean terrans build ghosts, libs and other t2-t3 units, while europe terrans like uthermal play marine-tanks against ultras-banelings-hydras-infestors-vipers for 20 minutes from 3 bases (sometimes 2) and logicaly lose


People that play 10 hours a day don't know that ghosts and vikings exist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIgfiSzCy1o
04/08/2019 07:42 AMPosted by thrasher
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/batmb8/2019_afreecatv_gsl_super_tournament_1_will_have_9/

I'm glad to see Parting beating Innovation. Cooking streams gave him so much power.
04/08/2019 07:42 AMPosted by thrasher
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/batmb8/2019_afreecatv_gsl_super_tournament_1_will_have_9/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuL6cJPz3Nk

If Maru wins either of these GSL tournaments will you confirm Maru is a bonjwa?


Huh.

Well, maru doesnt do well with weekend tournaments, historically. He likes having time to prepare for his opponent and does much better for it. Ill be surprised if he wins it though.
04/08/2019 07:08 AMPosted by Motion
If Terran is so easy what explains their lack of results in both wcs eu and na? Why are former kespa koreans the only ones that can wield Terran power? This question you will dodge.

Lack or results? Do eat, breath and drink terran cry force propaganda? Across major and premier events for 2017-2018, an individual terrans has 6x the odds to win tournaments compared to the individual zerg. This is true for non-maru terrans and non-serral zergs. The math & data is outlined here:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20767737231?page=1

04/08/2019 07:42 AMPosted by thrasher
If Maru wins either of these GSL tournaments will you confirm Maru is a bonjwa?

Nope. If he wants bonjwa status, he needs to smash protoss when protoss is the one winning 5 code s in a row. Stats did that. He is the only non terran to win a code s in LotV. He is a bonjwa. Watching a terran obliterate protoss players when protoss is trash is NOT impressive.
04/08/2019 11:22 AMPosted by tEhbAtZ
Nope. If he wants bonjwa status, he needs to smash protoss when protoss is the one winning 5 code s in a row. Stats did that. He is the only non terran to win a code s in LotV. He is a bonjwa. Watching a terran obliterate protoss players when protoss is trash is NOT impressive.

Maru was one of the strongest players in proleague and made ro.4 and ro.8 places when Terran was literally unplayable. If the game had any semblance of balance during the blink era (which Zerg did very well in despite the name), Maru would have won 3 GSLs in a row well before now. Zerg and Protoss has never struggled in the way that Terran has, you have no idea what real imbalance feels like.
How cute, Zerg is preventing Protoss from winning tournaments so a Zerg player is trying to point at Terran. There have been 18 tournaments since Jan 6 last year of those 18, 11 were PvZ and Protoss won 2 of them HAHAHAHAHAHA. How many TvP finals were there you ask? Only 2.
04/08/2019 01:57 PMPosted by BerryCrunch
How cute, Zerg is preventing Protoss from winning tournaments so a Zerg player is trying to point at Terran. There have been 18 tournaments since Jan 6 last year of those 18, 11 were PvZ and Protoss won 2 of them HAHAHAHAHAHA. How many TvP finals were there you ask? Only 2.


Clearly terrans are the one preventing protoss from winning here despite their 80% representation in finals

:thinking:
04/08/2019 01:57 PMPosted by BerryCrunch
How cute, Zerg is preventing Protoss from winning tournaments

Average ZvP ELO in tournaments: 342.9130.
Average PvZ ELO in tournaments: 372.6922.

Terran Cry Force: ZERG IS PREVENTING PROTOSS FROM WINNING TOURNAMENTS!

04/08/2019 01:57 PMPosted by BerryCrunch
so a Zerg player is trying to point at Terran.

Yes, I am the hypocrite for being the one with an informed oppinion. Please, continue to prove my points for me!
04/08/2019 07:29 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
04/08/2019 01:57 PMPosted by BerryCrunch
How cute, Zerg is preventing Protoss from winning tournaments

Average ZvP ELO in tournaments: 342.9130.
Average PvZ ELO in tournaments: 372.6922.

Terran Cry Force: ZERG IS PREVENTING PROTOSS FROM WINNING TOURNAMENTS!

04/08/2019 01:57 PMPosted by BerryCrunch
so a Zerg player is trying to point at Terran.

Yes, I am the hypocrite for being the one with an informed oppinion. Please, continue to prove my points for me!


The majority of tournament finals are PvZ which are won the majority of the time by the Zerg.
Funny when theorycraft degenerates like this one:
04/08/2019 07:29 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
04/08/2019 01:57 PMPosted by BerryCrunch
How cute, Zerg is preventing Protoss from winning tournaments

Average ZvP ELO in tournaments: 342.9130.
Average PvZ ELO in tournaments: 372.6922.

Terran Cry Force: ZERG IS PREVENTING PROTOSS FROM WINNING TOURNAMENTS!

04/08/2019 01:57 PMPosted by BerryCrunch
so a Zerg player is trying to point at Terran.

Yes, I am the hypocrite for being the one with an informed oppinion. Please, continue to prove my points for me!


and this one

04/08/2019 07:53 AMPosted by Farbros
because korean terrans build ghosts, libs and other t2-t3 units, while europe terrans like uthermal play marine-tanks against ultras-banelings-hydras-infestors-vipers for 20 minutes from 3 bases (sometimes 2) and logicaly lose


discuss balance, like the ones who make the balance cant make their own conclusions need the degenerates with troll posts to decide balance.

Please teach WCS Players that they need to use Ghosts, they totally need your Gold league advice
04/08/2019 11:57 PMPosted by BerryCrunch
04/08/2019 07:29 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
...
Average ZvP ELO in tournaments: 342.9130.
Average PvZ ELO in tournaments: 372.6922.

Terran Cry Force: ZERG IS PREVENTING PROTOSS FROM WINNING TOURNAMENTS!

...
Yes, I am the hypocrite for being the one with an informed oppinion. Please, continue to prove my points for me!


The majority of tournament finals are PvZ which are won the majority of the time by the Zerg.

Somebody didn't double check his facts.
*opens profile*
*is terran player*
Ah, makes sense now.
04/08/2019 01:08 PMPosted by SinsWhisper
Zerg and Protoss has never struggled in the way that Terran has, you have no idea what real imbalance feels like.

[/quote]

Zerg went almost an entire year without a premier win from 2017-2018. Before soO's IEM win Rogue was the only Korean Zerg to win a tournament in a 2 year span. Zerg also hasn't won a GSL in LOTV yet.
But yeah, Terran is only race that knows struggle. You're such brave warriors for playing this incredibly difficult, weak race.
04/09/2019 08:10 PMPosted by Shahzad
Zerg went almost an entire year without a premier win from 2017-2018. Before soO's IEM win Rogue was the only Korean Zerg to win a tournament in a 2 year span. Zerg also hasn't won a GSL in LOTV yet.
But yeah, Terran is only race that knows struggle. You're such brave warriors for playing this incredibly difficult, weak race.

"Wah wah Zerg hasn't won enough"

You're a joke, you think that just because you haven't won enough tournaments you race is indisputably weak. Imagine having 3 Zerg players in the ro.32, this forum would be up in a blaze of Zerg tears.

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2014_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_1/Code_S

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2014_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_2/Code_S

I think this isn't even representative of how bad of a spot Terran was in, Maru was just amazing in his results. Every other Terran player gets knocked out in the ro.16 but Maru falls in the semi finals to the same player that won the GSL with the same score as the finals.
You're a joke, you think that just because you haven't won enough your race is indisputably weak


Woah bruh calm down! Special was still winning region locked major tournaments back then!
04/09/2019 10:51 PMPosted by thrasher
Woah bruh calm down! Special was still winning region locked major tournaments back then!

Oh yes, Special who is the bonjwa of Terran and is putting out results comparable to Ser-
04/09/2019 10:42 PMPosted by SinsWhisper
04/09/2019 08:10 PMPosted by Shahzad
Zerg went almost an entire year without a premier win from 2017-2018. Before soO's IEM win Rogue was the only Korean Zerg to win a tournament in a 2 year span. Zerg also hasn't won a GSL in LOTV yet.
But yeah, Terran is only race that knows struggle. You're such brave warriors for playing this incredibly difficult, weak race.

"Wah wah Zerg hasn't won enough"

You're a joke, you think that just because you haven't won enough tournaments you race is indisputably weak. Imagine having 3 Zerg players in the ro.32, this forum would be up in a blaze of Zerg tears.

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2014_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_1/Code_S

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2014_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_2/Code_S

I think this isn't even representative of how bad of a spot Terran was in, Maru was just amazing in his results. Every other Terran player gets knocked out in the ro.16 but Maru falls in the semi finals to the same player that won the GSL with the same score as the finals.

http://bfy.tw/4JPX
04/09/2019 11:06 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
http://bfy.tw/4JPX

God, you're disconnected from reality, aren't you?
04/09/2019 08:10 PMPosted by Shahzad


Zerg went almost an entire year without a premier win from 2017-2018. Before soO's IEM win Rogue was the only Korean Zerg to win a tournament in a 2 year span. Zerg also hasn't won a GSL in LOTV yet.
But yeah, Terran is only race that knows struggle. You're such brave warriors for playing this incredibly difficult, weak race.


What happens at the highest level is different from your experience, my experience or experience of people at different leagues.

If there is a few players who is vastly superior to the rest of the population, naturally they will win. And they deserve it. This making sure every race takes turn to win the championship every year thru buffs, nerfs, added difficulty is a fallacy. You, together with the troll, that starts with T, that keep repeating bull!@#$ like "6x more likely etc etc" is focused on the wrong thing.

What we need is not a charity win from developers to achieve "balanced racial championship wins". Take the top 5 players of each race out of the balance equation and let the most skillful win. Balance the game around those below the top, so we see balanced representation and win rates below the top 5, and balance is achieved. And if a progamer can consistently win, that is only because he is heads over shoulders to his peers in terms of skill and he deserve the money to be earned. This is irregardless of whether he is zerg, protoss or terran. People support winners regardless of race, as evidenced by many P and T who recognised Life as one of the best when he was still competing.

This nonsense about "6x more likely etc" is exact proof of wide gap in skill. The no namer who qualify for tournaments due to playing a stronger race will of course be crushed by the Terran veterans who are much better than them, hence the higher win rate. Other than the usual few terran names, who else do we see representing the terrans. It's like putting 3 grandmaster zergs against 33 bronze terrans. Of course the results will be skewed.

When we have no-namer terrans qualify for tournaments, we will have a more balanced win rate. When we have equal representation on all races with balanced win rate below the very top, we will have arrived at ideal balance. Till then, we are barking up the wrong tree if we use championship representation for balance.

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