Co-op Mission Update - Stukov Revamp

Co-op Missions Discussion
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Stukov, ex-vice admiral of the UED, is the first Commander we’re looking at in the next round of reworks. As we’ve previously hinted, our primary focus will be to rein-in the power of Bunkers slightly while promoting interesting and powerful ways to use some of Stukov’s mechanical options.

Infested Bunker
  • Infested Bunker cost increased from 300 minerals to 350 minerals.
  • Infested Bunker supply increased from 4 to 6.

While there are many powerful units in Co-op, very few check as many key boxes as Infested Bunkers. Infested Bunkers are not only very powerful, but also cost-efficient, supply-efficient, durable, and versatile. While we generally try not to nerf existing strategies, we feel that Infested Bunkers are an outlier that would require extravagant Mech buffs in order to get them in the same ballpark. For that reason, we’ve decided to slightly decrease the unit’s cost efficiency and supply efficiency.

Infested Diamondback
  • Infested Diamondback cost decreased from 225/100 to 225/75.
  • Infested Diamondback range increased from 7 to 8.
  • Fungal Snare can now be cast on Heroic units. Duration on Heroic units is 2.5, compared to 10 for non-Heroic units.

We reduced the gas cost on Infested Diamondbacks to allow them to have them be less of a gas strain and allow them to be more of a backbone unit for mech-only play. We’ve increased the range so they can be more effective in their ability to kite enemy units. Finally, we’re allowing Heroic units to be snared, albeit for a much shorter duration such that you won’t need a specialized counter for small numbers of Heroic air units, such as the bonus on Rifts to Korhal. For more dedicated solutions to air threats, however, we recommend a slightly different air unit. . . .

Infested Liberator
  • Infested Liberator cost decreased from 150/150 to 150/125.
  • The Cloud Dispersal upgrade has been reworked. After they’re upgraded, an Infested Liberators will launch itself at an enemy target, turn itself into a swarm cloud, and stay in swarm cloud form until no enemy units in the area are taking damage. Infested Liberators will be controllable in cloud form and no longer return to their original location after they’re done attacking.
  • Damage reduction in swarm cloud form reduced from 90% to 85%.
  • After the Cloud Dispersal upgrade, weapon period decreased from 6 to 1.
  • After the Cloud Dispersal upgrade, damage period increased from 0.6 to 1.

First, we reduced gas cost to reduce gas strain on Stukov’s mech play. In addition, a common complaint about the Infested Liberator was that it felt clunky to use and often overkilled enemy targets. This was partially due to the Liberator’s very long cooldown and tendency to attack the same targets. We’ve reworked the Infested Liberator’s upgraded attack completely so that the player has more control and is much less likely to overkill targets. And because the Infested Liberator will be in swarm cloud form much more consistently, we’ve tweaked some numbers to temper its power level.

Infested Banshee
  • Infested Banshee now gains +2 range while cloaked.

This is the same benefit previously granted to Raynor’s Banshees, but we hope Infested Banshees can use them in a different way. Because Infested Banshees are much more durable and can regenerate their energy quickly, this will allow them to more consistently keep their additional range.

Brood Queen
  • Brood Queen movement speed increased from 2.5 to 3.75.
  • Brood Queen acceleration increased from 1.375 to 3.
  • Brood Queen life regeneration increased from 0.273 to 1.092.
  • Ocular Symbiote duration increased from 60 seconds to 180 seconds.
  • Ocular Symbiote now increases unit vision by 5 in addition to its current functionality.
  • Spawn Broodlings ability reworked. Instead of instantly killing a target unit, it will deal 300 damage to a target unit and spawn 2 Broodlings when that unit dies. This ability can now be cast on Massive and Heroic units.

Players have described Brood Queens as clunky, so we’ve made some improvements to the unit’s overall usability, Ocular Symbiote’s duration and versatility, and Spawn Broodling’s versatility.

Overseer
  • Morph to Overseer requirement changed from Infested Starport to Infested Factory.

We’ve changed this requirement to give players more flexibility in early-game builds.

Calldowns
  • Fixed a bug where Apocalisk Cooldown Mastery was also decreasing its initial cooldown at the start of the mission.
  • Fixed a bug where Aleksander Cooldown Mastery was also decreasing its initial cooldown at the start of the mission.
  • Apocalisk initial cooldown decreased from 300 seconds to 240 seconds.
  • Aleksander Cooldown Mastery increased from -2 seconds per point to -3 seconds per point. Maximum benefit increased from 60 seconds to 90 seconds.

We fixed a bug that was making Stukov’s calldown cooldown masteries more powerful than intended. It’s now in line with other Commanders’ calldowns. In order to make up for the lost potential 3:30 Apocalisk, we’ve reduced the base initial cooldown of Apocalisk from 5 minutes to 4 minutes.

Infest Structure
  • Fixed a bug where the second and third charges of Infest Structure were not reaching their cooldown as intended.
  • Infest Structure Cooldown Mastery increased from 1 second per point to 1.5 seconds per point. Maximum benefit increased from 30 seconds to 45 seconds.

We fixed a bug that would very often set the coolup for the second and third charges of Infest Structure from the intended 90 seconds to 180 seconds. Not only will this offset some of the early-game power lost by a slightly later potential Apocalisk, but it will also make the newly improved Infest Structure Cooldown Mastery more attractive.

Upgrades
  • Volatile Infested damage bonus per weapon upgrade increased from +4 (+5 vs structures) to +4 (+8 vs structures). This includes Infested Siege Tank Volatile Burst damage.
  • Infested Diamondback damage bonus per weapon upgrade increased from +2 to +2 (+3 vs armored).
  • Infested Banshee damage bonus per weapon upgrade decreased from +2 to +1.
  • Apocalisk damage bonus per weapon upgrade increased from +5 to +8.

Upgrade bonuses were tweaked so that they’re more consistent with how they behave on other Commanders.

Going Forward
And that’s it for Stukov! Stay tuned next week when we’ll be tackling Dehaka and his legion of Primal Zerg.

Kevin Dong
Lead Co-op Designer
I understand the nerf to the bunkers, but 5 supply per bunker with the increased cost would be enough.

Main issue of mech was it's lacking durability and sustain, which you have not addressed at all as you have not re-introduced a health regeneration mastery.
I feel that the nerf have more impact than buff.
Really not liking the bunker nerf.
First of all, great to hear from you Kevin. I was honestly losing hope of seeing another bluepost. Glad youre still working on this mode.

Second, bunkerspam nerf is welcome. Yes, i know 'balance' in coop should never ever be prioritized over fun, but bunkerspam is just ridiculous, OP in the most mundane way. You can literally tackle very difficult brutal mutations by doing nothing but building bunkers and clicking rally point every now and then in breaks between eating a sandwich. Not to mention supply nerf mean that you can spam less bunkers overall, thus improving late game framerate when paired with Stukov.

Lastly, reducing the gas cost of the mech is the right way to go. Gotta see revamped units in action to be sure how theyll perform but changes look solid on the paper.

Cant wait to try them out!
Still need more healing options for mech.

Would also help lag issues with Diamondbacks if their slime trail was reworked. I proposed in the previous thread that instead of making it constant you could make it an ability you have to manually cast and then it produces slime for a short time and the slime has longer duration than currently, making it easier to use as a trap to kite enemies into.
rip my infested valkyrie dreams

In all seriousness, interesting changes. The liberator changes are welcome, as are some of the mech damage changes. I'm not sure on bunkers but we'll see if it's too steep or not, they were just insane before but the supply change may be a bit too much. I'll play before I judge though they still seem good.

Will infested diamondback snares work on void launch shuttles? You mention it works on the Kimeran Pirate ship, but wasn't sure if this would apply to those as well, given they seem to have more specialized properties.

I love the Brood Queen changes, the spawn broodling change is an interesting one. I worry a little bit about their target priority still, as their biggest problem in my eyes was they had to rush in and would get a spell off before getting instantly sniped. But I am excited to try mass spawn broodling on OE trains now.

The one thing I am curious about is the banshee dps nerf, I never really saw that as an issue for them given how niche they already are.
Killed a Stukov's core unit and buff(Roughly meaningless 1 to 2.5 point) broken unit.... at least Infested lib's have enough change...
Hope this bunker nerf promote their actual intended play (as in unroot and attack/relocate as needed). Curious if the break point is tested with this nerf. Overall, players would have only 50% of effective army from the bunker at most normal timings (due to 4->6 supply cost and 50min cost increase - the cost to pay itself is dramatically different).

The changes to mech will make them that much better, can’t wait to try these out. I’ve always been a fan of mech over bio simply due to the mundane style.

As for the mastery changes, unclear on how exactly it’ll affect early game by just reading. This will need some more testing.
Can we get rid of the difference of marine and trooper ?

They look similar, act similar etc. Wouldn’t the same timer be okay?
Please elaborate why we should use barracks - is there some kind of benefit?

Bunkers still seem more valid ...
05/09/2019 11:17 AMPosted by Crusher
Please elaborate why we should use barracks - is there some kind of benefit?

Bunkers still seem more valid ...

Barracks give you a cheap Temporary unit
Bunkers give you an expensive Permanent stream of Temporary units.
I can't wait to try out Diamonbacks, Brood Queens and Infested Liberators.

Double nerf to Infested Bunker might be too much, and probably unnecessary. And poor Banshees got a damage nerf.
05/09/2019 11:21 AMPosted by Krikkitone
05/09/2019 11:17 AMPosted by Crusher
Please elaborate why we should use barracks - is there some kind of benefit?

Bunkers still seem more valid ...

Barracks give you a cheap Temporary unit
Bunkers give you an expensive Permanent stream of Temporary units.


After unit 14 is spawned the Bunker paid its rent and all units are free..

Don’t get me wrong - I like barracks - i want to use them - but it’s a worse strategy by now..

Would it be better if barracks would spawn free units instead of bunkers - while bunkers would keep the regrowing marines and flush out mechanic?
So... Bunker - huge nerf making it worse than current mech even if you dont switch for mech attack mastery (and absolutely useless before capacity upgrade from 4 to 6). Banshee - minor nerf (less damage from upgrades in exchange for increased survivability that was never a problem for them). Diamondback and Liberator - ok buff. Tank - minor buff (more damage to buildings from upgrades). Calldowns - not sure yet. Overseer - ok buff. Queen - major overbuff. I mean, 300 (600 with full energy) damage from fast 2 supply unit with fast energy regen that costs only as much as mutalisk? Okay...
This is definitely a damper on Bunker effectiveness, and I personally believe it to be a bit too drastic for the Bunkers. Stukov's early game is already tedious to handle since he gets supply blocked extremely quickly. If you believe the bunkers are too powerful, that's fine, but I think increasing their supply cost by 50% is a bit too drastic of a change, especially considering Stukov's early game is as troublesome as it thanks to both income and supply (income being the lesser problem than supply). I would think either doing a less drastic supply increase (and even increasing the mineral cost if you so desired) would be a more appropriate change, as Stukov consumed so much supply even before the nerf, and this rather large increase significantly impacts how many bunkers he can field.

The other changes I have no comment on – I especially like the Diamondback change, the others I think are acceptable. My only complaint is that I think the Bunkers were hit a bit too hard.

And although I have low expectations of this happening, I would think trading the Ocular Symbiote's sight range for permanent duration is a more fitting change, especially considering that I foresee Brood Queens gobbling all of their energy spamming Spawn Broodling, which can impact how often you refresh the Symbiote. But if there arguments against it, I'd love to hear them.
05/09/2019 11:21 AMPosted by Krikkitone
05/09/2019 11:17 AMPosted by Crusher
Please elaborate why we should use barracks - is there some kind of benefit?

Bunkers still seem more valid ...

Barracks give you a cheap Temporary unit
Bunkers give you an expensive Permanent stream of Temporary units.


You're meant to uproot bunkers and amove them, not wait for some stupid unit trickle that hardly does anything.

They basically have ultralisk stats, and STILL cost zero gas.
That nerf is really terrible, what happened to just bringing less used units up to par?
It's not like any of those changes add any new options or strategies except that maybe the Brood Queen will actually be used.

I never felt Stukov was OP compared to the other new commanders like Tychus, or Zeratul. If you feel Stukov's bunkers are too strong are those projecting cannons and monoliths gonna be nerfed too?
That attitude also makes me fear that Dehaka's air is gonna be nerfed into the ground next.

This is an overall nerf to Stukov (and to the one thing that's thematically Stukov's whole shtick), the slight mech buff does in no way make up for it, personally I would actually rather see no revamp at all than have those changes go through.

It weakened his bio while still not making any new mech comps viable since it's not like for instance, mass Banshee with libs support is much better, they still lack any kind of punch that would make their cost and massing them really worth it.
If they were cheaper and their supply cost was decreased to 2 , and lib supply cost was lowered to 2 also, then maybe, though that would be the most boring way possible to make them viable.

Though the Liberator change will make them a lot more useful, generally the mech is still quite expensive for what you get. Especially Banshees, that extra range doesn't feel particularly impactful, I think what they need more, if taking from Raynor is the aoe damage instead, they are fairly weak offensively, that upgrade nerf just makes it worse.

I still think The Brood Queen needs a slight cast range increase, not to mention Ocular Symbiote being changed into something more useful in general.
Sight range only really helps tanks, the only part of the mech that perhaps didn't need a buff, not any other units. Giving Brood Queens Consume instead would have been neat and offers a nice synergy, using the bio as fuel which fits Stukov's theme well.

I expect that this change will just lead to me playing Stukov a lot less since I will always feel like I'm playing a subpar version of what I once did, my preferred playstyle has always been heavily bunker focused, getting multiple bunkers and pushing with them, before even thinking about getting Colonist Compound upgrades, and then later adding mech depending on comp and mutations.
TL;DR: would rather have no revamp than one that's actually an overall nerf.
Bunker nerf will destroy stukov's defend ability until the apocalisk is ready.Hope it will not happen on dehaka.
(Dehaka need some broodling for his structures when they die. Use zergling or worker to against killerbot is too expensive .)
1 battlecruiser=1 carrier= 1infested bunker lol fxxking cool
I'm just talking about their supply
but yeah very nice april fool's joke... such as immortal

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