Co-op Mission Update - Stukov Revamp

Co-op Missions Discussion
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05/24/2019 08:57 AMPosted by Hiei
just tried Stukov a couple of times and it's just sad. I pray for not picking it when i random.
What were you thinking?


I don't know what you were using, but I found air pretty good. I tested a bunch on RTK since I thought that was a good map for air tactics in addition to early waves.

The Banshee is a pretty good. Doesn't require a whole lot of micro and outranges Static Defense. You can backdoor stuff and use some Queens behind it to snipe any air unit now. You can also frontdoor with a larger force doing the same thing. When I did it, I didn't even use that much "burrow micro" as I thought I would. If you're fast, WireBender mentioned you can even keep < 8 range AA ground away from Banshees with the ensnare spell. A-moving Banshees and holding Queens in back ready for snipe is relatively low APM requisite. No calldowns required.

You can kill the Pirate ships with Queens before they charge. Second one requires an Infest Structure to distract Guards...unless you Banshee them as per above.

With a bit more APM, the Queen is very nimble. It can run from the sight of Scourge and "lead-shot ensnare" them almost like a Cyclone that shoots a spell while running.

The Liberator is pretty good vs. lots of air since it will maintain ball form and tank A LOT of damage. I've yet to try the Purifier Beam control thing, but I'd imagine it works if there's lots of air and not too much stuff shooting up. Because it will stay there in plane form and dies real fast. Sky Terran is an ideal target...which a lot of ppl seem to hate.

I've handled a 2:00 Zergling wave with 1 Bunker. I flanked it between 2 buildings and used 2 SCV's to repair it. When the Zerglings circled, I moved the SCV's to the front...and then repeat when they circled again, which if all goes well, they should be dead. Again...no calldowns.

One thing about the changes though, is that it makes it less F2 friendly. Queens (instead of Liberators) are now the fastest unit and they will suicide if you A mixed air into the enemy (without pre-formation that is). ;)

TLDR
Banshee: A-move base assault
Queen: Pops giant enemies in 2 seconds, moves like Wraith with snipe
Liberator: Interesting Purifier Beam Micro when lots of Air
Bunker: Can rush to defend Zergling wave with SCV support.
05/10/2019 09:58 AMPosted by Imposter
Some additional modifications for Queen that'd be cool.

Ocular Symbiote: Allows ground units to see up cliffs.

Spawn Broodlings: Behavior stacks, therefor if a high HP enemy gets hit with 5 spawn broodlings, 10 broodlings spawn upon death.


Spawn Broodlings does stack. e.g. Killing something with 3 Broodling shots makes 6 Broodlings.
Tried new Infested Diamondbacks, boy are they fun. Spent a match cruising around Mist Opportunities against Swarmy Zerg basically screaming "you can't hit me, you can't hit me!" the whole time.
05/24/2019 09:14 PMPosted by Moraeth
Tried new Infested Diamondbacks, boy are they fun. Spent a match cruising around Mist Opportunities against Swarmy Zerg basically screaming "you can't hit me, you can't hit me!" the whole time.


Did you have ally Fast Stetzone? I was wondering what it would be like to use those and Cyclones in it.
05/25/2019 11:39 AMPosted by rasmasyean
Did you have ally Fast Stetzone? I was wondering what it would be like to use those and Cyclones in it.

I had tons of those, and given that inf dbs are naturally quick, the boost from satellites make them sometimes a bit hard to control if you are not careful.
05/25/2019 11:39 AMPosted by rasmasyean
05/24/2019 09:14 PMPosted by Moraeth
Tried new Infested Diamondbacks, boy are they fun. Spent a match cruising around Mist Opportunities against Swarmy Zerg basically screaming "you can't hit me, you can't hit me!" the whole time.

Did you have ally Fast Stetzone? I was wondering what it would be like to use those and Cyclones in it.
If I remember correctly he was a level 1 Stetmann that didn't place them well, so kinda sometimes. I was honestly more disappointed he didn't turn on the HUGS more often since I did actually get hit a couple times.
I'm an old man that usually plays Stukov (as my APM is low) and am having much trouble after the patch. Can the pros here help?

Before the patch, I normally:
- Play a combination of bunkers, infested marines and 8-10 tanks / libs / banshees / diamondbacks depending on the enemy composition. With the mech mainly supporting the zombies. Some bunkers hold key points while some are used for pushing.
- Depending on the map, I build a CC at 18, 1 gas at 20, infested barracks at 21 and plunk down 2 bunkers to guard against first waves by 23 (after CC is done).
- I use a charge of infested structure on my second CC and the infested to break rocks at expo.
- I upgrade both bio and mech so I don't lose my gas investment in mech units.

After the patch, I noticed that:
- Loss of 3:30 Apocalisk made me very vulnerable to speedlings / hellion openings.
- The increased cost in bunkers also made losing them to baneling busts very painful (I usually don't, but sometimes accidents happen).
- I feel like the focus is being pushed to mech, but the buffs to mech still don't justify the gas cost of the units.
- It feels such a waste not to upgrade bio (to afford mech) when I go mech because I get 64 free bio melee/baneling units every 30 sec.
- As a previous poster stated, I also feel playing pure mech is not playing to Stukov's raison d'etre, which is to wear down and eventually overwhelm the enemy with mobs of mindless zombies.

Anyone know what I should do to continue playing a combo bio/mech style?

Thanks in advance!
05/28/2019 08:38 PMPosted by BaBa
- Loss of 3:30 Apocalisk made me very vulnerable to speedlings / hellion openings.

Apo b4 min 4 was a bug. Was tiggered by the mastery, reduced its initial cd. Apo now is ready at min 4:00 regardless Mastery.

Also Inf Structure is now at 3:00 min and it's enough to deal with whatever enemy comp at first wave. With full mastery inf structure will be ready every 45 sec.

Increased cost in bunkers also made losing them to baneling busts very painful (I usually don't, but sometimes accidents happen).


Have you tried infesting your own inf bunkers? If that weren't enough you could also release the loaded inf troopers to aggro those banes.

Increase on inf bunkers iirc was bc it was very cheap. It's a first tier unit, that deals with air, ground, provide with free units during the whole match can move, can defend, can attack, only cost minerals, didn't even need gas, only needed a pre-req of 150m inf barracks. And they added +50 m and +2 pop. If you take into account all that those inf bunkers can do with that low pre-req I don't think it was big deal.

Additionaly did you try to use the inf barracks? They provide almost instant and super cheap 25m inf marines that also deal with full air and ground, and can take care of banes and whatever you are facing atm, and also inf struct ability should suffice.

05/28/2019 08:38 PMPosted by BaBa
- I feel like the focus is being pushed to mech, but the buffs to mech still don't justify the gas cost of the units.


Yeah, the mechs were certainly buffed. But you are wrong here, the gas cost is fully justified. I have played the inf mechs for years, since the very fix were they added the mech attack speed mastery and became viable, ppl always considered it to underperform compared to inf bio, but they were always viable. Maybe you should take a try now instead of wrongly claiming that their gas cost isn't justified?

Personally I always full clean maps just with mechs. Inf air mechs are certainly very gas heavy while inf ground especially inf diamondbacks are quite less, that lets me use those extra gas on upgrading attack + armor from both, mechs and broodings from inf struct (2 armories + 2 e-bays).

You know, also the action of making this commander find the expo gas useless and "donate" it just because gas wasn't justified wasn't actually good. All commanders benefit from expo gas, there's always something you can invest your gas in, unless some specific mutation, or strategy.
But assuming that devs made a commander that donate expo gas was never officially intended.
05/28/2019 08:38 PMPosted by BaBa
- It feels such a waste not to upgrade bio (to afford mech) when I go mech because I get 64 free bio melee/baneling units every 30 sec.


I used to only upgrade mechs b4 this patch, now I use inf struct calldown mastery, and I'm now able to spam it every 45 seconds I decided to upgrade bio too, along with mechs. So every match I have 2 armories, 2 e-bays and it's still possible. Regarding the inf compound, you could start upgrading that instead of 2 e-bays.

You can still use inf bunkers btw, just not spamm them so fast as b4.

05/28/2019 08:38 PMPosted by BaBa
As a previous poster stated, I also feel playing pure mech is not playing to Stukov's raison d'etre, which is to wear down and eventually overwhelm the enemy with mobs of mindless zombies.

Stukov commander from the very begining was intended to be a horde infested units commander, as one face of the coin. But on the other hand you always had his inf mech. The thing that mech was initially trash didn't mean they had to be useless in the future. Same happened with Fenix, was very weak at first, then he was fixed and now is a damn good commander.

Stukov has 2 playstyles, one is certainly his inf bio play, but the another is inf mech. You are playing Stukov on either way. The zombie horde was JUST one of his both possible styles.

05/28/2019 08:38 PMPosted by BaBa
Anyone know what I should do to continue playing a combo bio/mech style?

Thanks in advance!


Personally? I think u should play whatever that pleases u the most.

Now if you want more advice. Try for once, a pure mech build, you know bio Stukov, try going full inf diamondbacks and only upgrading it for once. Try it just to know the playstyle. Especially if enemy is not based on heavy anti ground like immortals/tanks, in those cases you'll need inf banshees too.

Btw inf banshees outrange static defense, making them cloaked flying siege weapons that can auto heal and auto regenerate energy almost instantly by burrowing.

Inf diamondbacks are quick, versatile, deal now with not only ground but also air, (exceptions are: Lokis, Archangel & Shuttles from VL). They have a nice range, hit while moving, also have an upgrade that deal splash damage with their slime, so if you lure enemies to it they will get additional dmg. They are certainly fun.

That's definitely the easiest and strongest mech build imo. Otherwise try inf barracks spam, try the inf air mechs. Try inf structure mastery and upgrade e-bays attack + armor upgrades, additionaly mix mechs.

But again try different builds till you find some that pleases you the most. My favourite is massing inf diamondbacks + upgrading 2 e-bays + 2 amories and dominating the whole map (unless some mutations, some enemy comps like immortals, etc).

Hope I helped a bit.
05/28/2019 08:38 PMPosted by BaBa
After the patch, I noticed that:
- Loss of 3:30 Apocalisk made me very vulnerable to speedlings / hellion openings.

You really shouldn't need apocalisk for the first wave.

If the problem is that they hit too early and you don't have bunkers ready, go barracks and bunker before gas and get barracks earlier (I go 17CC 19racks).
Regarding lings, place barracks and infested compound right next to bunker so lings have less surface area to wear it down.

Also, infest structure on CC next to rocks should be enough to break main rock at expo, you just continually box select spawning broodlings and right click main rock, even if you aren't that fast it should still be enough.
If you do that the first infested civilians can then help support bunker, which mostly isn't needed, but can help with reapers.

Here's my build in a bit more detail on maps with rocks:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20771486992?page=2#post-29
Not a fan of Air mech, but i found Ground mech super fun to use...

I tend to Semi commit and get my compound and infested civies upgraded...

its fun, letting your wave slowely bang on the front door, with a Mad HIT AND RUN tactic of diamond backs, with the occasional Sudden 10 seige tanks comming out of nowhere.

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