Need unit vability suggestions for Protoss

General Discussion
Prev 1 3 4 5 Next
Lurkers have a lot of weaknesses in z v t like tanks and libs. Realistically the only way lurkers could be viable v Terran is if you bring vipers down the tech tree as they pair well with lurkers, but then vipers would have to be nerfed as they are currently too powerful to have them available earlier.
Also banelings have always been the splash choice against Terran and as long as they remain so good I don't think that will ever change.
05/10/2019 03:16 PMPosted by oldpainless

Also banelings have always been the splash choice against Terran and as long as they remain so good I don't think that will ever change.


Banelings cannot control space and punish pushing foward. Lurkers can.

Banelings die to widow mines. Lurkers don't since they greatly out range them.

Banelings suicide to attack, Lurkers do not.
I didn't read everything so some may already have been mentionned.

Carrier bring the Interceptors build time to 12sec normal time (8,5sec real). It's exactly halfway through before and after the patch.

One change that I would love, but it's not a buff, it's a Zerg nerf : Abduct can't target massive units. Since the FB nerf Zerg spellcasters dominate lategame so I think it's the better solution to fix that.
It makes the Mothership more viable, it's also a buff for Colossi vs Z.
I would love to see Colo/Stalker as a viable alternate strat vs Zerg, maybe even Colo/Stalker/VR, not has strong of an army but more mobile (kinda the Protoss battle mech equivalent).

Edit : I see a lot of talk about Lurker being an alternate splash source against Terran but why not use Fungal ? 30 dmg on a 45-55 unit is huged, especially since it cannot be removed after being hit. It also prevent picking up in Medivac, and with the slow, you have more chance to cast a 2nd Fungal or hit with Banes.
05/10/2019 03:11 PMPosted by MyOhMind
05/10/2019 02:42 PMPosted by Farbros
...so you are gm in eu... there are only 3 real gm random players in eu, its: Beastyqt, Alex007, Xpander, which of them are you? or maybe you will finally show us your profile, so that we could be sure that you are at least platinum and that balance of sc2 is in the right hands?

I'm neither of those 3. I said that I'm usually high masters, have been GM occasionally over the years. Also I do not play Random, I just play whatever race I'm in the mood for.
so maybe we can finally see your real account? which was gm with all 3 races? or maybe you will give us nickname and rankedftw will show us your mmr for all 3 races? or maybe you will continue tell us about your "high rank" and show no game knowledge with "no lurker viability because of scans, while tanks with 13 range play no role there"?
and show no game knowledge with "no lurker viability because of scans, while tanks with 13 range play no role there"?


Tanks and Liberators are only effective against Lurkers if the Lurkers are detected.
05/11/2019 08:19 AMPosted by MyOhMind
and show no game knowledge with "no lurker viability because of scans, while tanks with 13 range play no role there"?


Tanks and Liberators are only effective against Lurkers if the Lurkers are detected.

1 Raven solves that problem though and it is very easy to save up money for scans and protect your command centers.

At the end of the day, Lurkers are always going to have problems with Tanks and Liberators on the field.

Liberators in particular can also eat up Zerg's supply by just dropping their circle over the Lurkers. Even if the Liberators cannot see the Lurkers, this prevents the Lurkers from moving and makes it easy to just wait until you have a scan or detection or attack along other paths while the enemy's supply is eaten up.
05/11/2019 08:19 AMPosted by MyOhMind
...

Tanks and Liberators are only effective against Lurkers if the Lurkers are detected.

1 Raven solves that problem though and it is very easy to save up money for scans and protect your command centers.

At the end of the day, Lurkers are always going to have problems with Tanks and Liberators on the field.

Liberators in particular can also eat up Zerg's supply by just dropping their circle over the Lurkers. Even if the Liberators cannot see the Lurkers, this prevents the Lurkers from moving and makes it easy to just wait until you have a scan or detection or attack along other paths while the enemy's supply is eaten up.


Great you mentioned all of this. In playtests in the Better Game Balance mod featuring TvZ Lurkers the meta of TvZ since Lurkers became more viable has rapidly changed.

Since Scans are either being used up or denied, Terrans do build Ravens to help with the detection. However Zergs have gotten smarter where they will go MLB to snipe the ravens and then they will switch into Lurkers.

Now Tanks and Liberators are still effective against Lurkers, but since Lurkers allow Zerg to hold off different unit comps a little better because they got a small change that makes them more competitive against non-armored units such as marines, Zergs can now get out faster Hive's to get vipers out to counter the Tanks and Liberators because of all the time the Lurkers now buy for them.
...
1 Raven solves that problem though and it is very easy to save up money for scans and protect your command centers.

At the end of the day, Lurkers are always going to have problems with Tanks and Liberators on the field.

Liberators in particular can also eat up Zerg's supply by just dropping their circle over the Lurkers. Even if the Liberators cannot see the Lurkers, this prevents the Lurkers from moving and makes it easy to just wait until you have a scan or detection or attack along other paths while the enemy's supply is eaten up.


Great you mentioned all of this. In playtests in the Better Game Balance mod featuring TvZ Lurkers the meta of TvZ since Lurkers became more viable has rapidly changed.

Since Scans are either being used up or denied, Terrans do build Ravens to help with the detection. However Zergs have gotten smarter where they will go MLB to snipe the ravens and then they will switch into Lurkers.

Now Tanks and Liberators are still effective against Lurkers, but since Lurkers allow Zerg to hold off different unit comps a little better because they got a small change that makes them more competitive against non-armored units such as marines, Zergs can now get out faster Hive's to get vipers out to counter the Tanks and Liberators because of all the time the Lurkers now buy for them.

Okay, being this vague is idiotic.

Nobody is going to play a mod when they have no idea what the changes are.
05/11/2019 09:53 AMPosted by TerranicII
...

Great you mentioned all of this. In playtests in the Better Game Balance mod featuring TvZ Lurkers the meta of TvZ since Lurkers became more viable has rapidly changed.

Since Scans are either being used up or denied, Terrans do build Ravens to help with the detection. However Zergs have gotten smarter where they will go MLB to snipe the ravens and then they will switch into Lurkers.

Now Tanks and Liberators are still effective against Lurkers, but since Lurkers allow Zerg to hold off different unit comps a little better because they got a small change that makes them more competitive against non-armored units such as marines, Zergs can now get out faster Hive's to get vipers out to counter the Tanks and Liberators because of all the time the Lurkers now buy for them.

Okay, being this vague is idiotic.

Nobody is going to play a mod when they have no idea what the changes are.

Fair point, my fault on that. I just want to finish up the Protoss changes and then reveal all of them.

TerranicII do you have any suggestions of your own for the Mothership and Colossus? Also could I add you in game?.
05/11/2019 10:26 AMPosted by MyOhMind
TerranicII do you have any suggestions of your own for the Mothership and Colossus? Also could I add you in game?


Like I said, nerf Abduct is pretty much the only way you'll achieve that. Or a FB revert.

Protoss is just dead without splash, so if a couple units can just abduct all of your Colossi, they will never be viable.
05/11/2019 11:00 AMPosted by Papanarbre
05/11/2019 10:26 AMPosted by MyOhMind
TerranicII do you have any suggestions of your own for the Mothership and Colossus? Also could I add you in game?


Like I said, nerf Abduct is pretty much the only way you'll achieve that. Or a FB revert.

Protoss is just dead without splash, so if a couple units can just abduct all of your Colossi, they will never be viable.

But if you were to do a specific change to each unit what would you do?.
05/11/2019 08:19 AMPosted by MyOhMind
and show no game knowledge with "no lurker viability because of scans, while tanks with 13 range play no role there"?


Tanks and Liberators are only effective against Lurkers if the Lurkers are detected.
why are you going away from the main part of my post? give us a link to your accout, so that we could see, that you are a minimum of diamond with all races
05/11/2019 08:19 AMPosted by MyOhMind
...

Tanks and Liberators are only effective against Lurkers if the Lurkers are detected.
why are you going away from the main part of my post? give us a link to your accout, so that we could see, that you are a minimum of diamond with all races

Simple. It has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.
Dark templars are assassination units. I would add the blink thing without research, from the start, to make them an early very aggressive unit which still requires some micro.

Colossus could be changed in many ways.
Make them non targetable by air units.
Make them immune to control and movement spells .
Change damage damage to be single shot instead of double.
I always liked the idea to have 9 range from start but having thermal lance add more damage to Colossus.

Mothership could be an instant summon from Nexus, the build time is really long. It could be really nice to have mothership core acting like a pylon, so units can be summoned in her range
One change that I would like to see to DTs to make them more combat effective would be something like this:

Phantasmal Armor: After using shadow stride dark templar gain 50 temporary shields and +2 damage reduction for 5 seconds. My biggest problem with using DTs in any combat currently is if the enemy has any form of detection, they just melt instantly making them useless in larger battles.
...why are you going away from the main part of my post? give us a link to your accout, so that we could see, that you are a minimum of diamond with all races

Simple. It has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.
or maybe because you dont have one?
...why are you going away from the main part of my post? give us a link to your accout, so that we could see, that you are a minimum of diamond with all races

Simple. It has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.


But you had time to insult me by talking about how I play 4v4, as if having friends somehow negates the fact that I'm masters and youre gold at best.
05/12/2019 09:21 AMPosted by Ace
...
Simple. It has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.


But you had time to insult me by talking about how I play 4v4, as if having friends somehow negates the fact that I'm masters and youre gold at best.


I'm masters also. I do more 1v1's then 4v4's so I could care less about my teamgame leagues.

So do you have any suggestions related to the thread topic?.

05/11/2019 03:00 PMPosted by Farbros
...
Simple. It has nothing to do with the subject of the thread.
or maybe because you dont have one?


I do have one. But that is not the purpose of this thread, I have yet to see you offer any suggestions.
I'm masters also.

Oh really, are you now? This would certainly be news to me. Maybe you should like, oh I don't know, post your profile instead of expecting people to take your word for it?

I do more 1v1's then 4v4's so I could care less about my teamgame leagues.

Who mentioned teamgame leagues? Nobodies teamgame league ever matters lol. If you have more than like 3 friends you'll never be able to keep a consistent group together anyway so you really can't rank up and push for a high league in 4v4 since every time you change 1 member of your group your rank resets and you have to do 5 more placement matches.

And yet you brought up teamgames anyway as an insult to me. As if enjoying 4v4 somehow makes my 1v1 rank less real xD. Meanwhile you literally have no rank because you're really a gold league theorycrafter who spends his time in the editor all day xD

The icing on the cake is whenever some random zerg or toss noob who has never posted here before comes and pours their salt into a thread, this clown is the first one to say 'git gud, you are only gold league'. How about taking your own advice before spending hours in the editor changing the rules to make you feel better about how trash of a player you are xD
05/12/2019 10:36 AMPosted by Ace
I'm masters also.

Oh really, are you now? This would certainly be news to me. Maybe you should like, oh I don't know, post your profile instead of expecting people to take your word for it?

I do more 1v1's then 4v4's so I could care less about my teamgame leagues.

Who mentioned teamgame leagues? Nobodies teamgame league ever matters lol. If you have more than like 3 friends you'll never be able to keep a consistent group together anyway so you really can't rank up and push for a high league in 4v4 since every time you change 1 member of your group your rank resets and you have to do 5 more placement matches.

And yet you brought up teamgames anyway as an insult to me. As if enjoying 4v4 somehow makes my 1v1 rank less real xD. Meanwhile you literally have no rank because you're really a gold league theorycrafter who spends his time in the editor all day xD

The icing on the cake is whenever some random zerg or toss noob who has never posted here before comes and pours their salt into a thread, this clown is the first one to say 'git gud, you are only gold league'. How about taking your own advice before spending hours in the editor changing the rules to make you feel better about how trash of a player you are xD


I have to give MyOh some credit in the taking abuse department; he takes endless abuse from this community but still tries to get his ideas/mod out there, so kudos for that. It does seem like MyOh genuinely cares about creating a “better version” of the game, but may not be aware of his own biases/limitations as an individual modder. I think MyOh feels he needs to claim Masters/GM in order to give his mod some credibility, which he truly believes is a better form of the game, however, this just turns the community against him because he refuses to prove it.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum