Stukov Revamp Feedback

Co-op Missions Discussion
Stukov's zombie horde is at the Barracks not the bunkers.

Barracks ramp up faster and create longer living units.

Late game mineral output can spawn ~50 marines a minute so ultimate zombie Stukov is ~50 supply SCV ~50 supply bunkers and ~100 supply Marines
(each Bunker only maintains ~2.5 troopers, so they are worse for Stukov's fantasy)
05/28/2019 07:11 AMPosted by Maltiki
[quote]Lokis are not affected by Diamondback's grounding effect because they have the unstoppable flag attached to them.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/520043624935849995/582937832973271040/unknown.png
I still don't get it about the flags, the description also doesn't say anything special other than massive, heroic, armored, etc.
Stetlag™

FearrWhalins® ©orp
The Bunker nerf was massive.

I'm glad his mech/air was buffed to be more viable, but they killed bunker build.

We used to have Barracks or Bunkers, now we have Barracks or Mech. I would have preferred having all three builds.
05/28/2019 05:54 AMPosted by Daegoth
I haven't build a bunker for years and this wasn't the exception, your first inf structure is ready at 3:00 min, so unless you are on RtK you have to worry about nothing.


With the enemy comp bug, I was able to play RTK a few times vs. Zerglings. You can flank your 1st Bunker with Buildings and dance SCV's around it (I used 2 repairing while avoiding the zerglings) to handle the fast rush wave. Classic Terran bunker play really. Your first calldown isn't ready so this is one way to do without pumping the Barracks or relying on Ally.
Banshee's can backdoor pretty easily with Queen support. You can place Queens behind the Banshees an pop any Air and Detectors. Then if needed, you can pretty much use "burrow micro" to keep them healed and cloaked.

With a larger force, you can frontdoor slowly using this method as well if you're fast with the Queen. It basically entails watching the front while Ocullarizing some A-moved Banshees to help see. Then you pop key units and to some micro adjustments when needed but it's very low APM.
05/27/2019 06:33 PMPosted by Koetetsu
I still think liberators still suck when you upgrade them


It's vulnerable to things shooting up because it says in the last attacked spot in plane form. But in swarm form, it can tank a lot of damage as well as deal a lot of damage to stacked units by automatically bouncing around the group. Here is a test I had performed to what many players consider among the toughest AA waves.

6 Infested Liberators vs. SkyTerran 5-BC wave
4 orange, 2 red after eliminating all air units.
3 killed by Marines and Turrets while fleeing the scene.

10 Infested Liberators vs. SkyTerran 7-BC wave
1 orange, 2 yellow after eliminating all air units.
2 more yellow from Turrets while fleeing the scene
05/28/2019 12:52 PMPosted by rasmasyean
With the enemy comp bug, I was able to play RTK a few times vs. Zerglings. You can flank your 1st Bunker with Buildings and dance SCV's around it (I used 2 repairing while avoiding the zerglings) to handle the fast rush wave. Classic Terran bunker play really. Your first calldown isn't ready so this is one way to do without pumping the Barracks or relying on Ally.

Yeah I tend to use that tactic when I build some static with Swann, Karax, or even Zergs, especially on DoN, static blocked by structures, so enemies have to surround everything but the thing is, I don't just want to build a structure I'm not gonna use later, I would build an inf bunker if I could recycle it afterwards, but just for first wave on RtK? I'd rather have a pair of scvs or even my inf CC walking to lure them just the 5 o 6 seconds I need to have inf struct (1st calldown) available.
05/28/2019 02:37 AMPosted by Maltiki
As said elsewhere and by many, nerfing the swarminess of Stukov while giving it to that @*!¤# new commander (who must not be named!) is disturbing (I did not say stupid) at best.
That being said, diamondbacks still feel a bit too weak and liberators are like glass cannons. Maybe replacing the attack speed mastery 3 with reduced cool-down of mech units might be a relatively simple and easy change. And adding some regeneration to libs while attacking, maybe in the form of 15% life-steal similar to Kerrigan's ultralisks (but obviously at a lower rate), might be useful as well.
Db's indeed are not tanky units. However, I find if you sic your Infested Civilians on the enemy first (or use Infest Structure), they take a LOT of heat off of your mech, allowing them to safely deal large amounts of damage from afar.

Not unlike what I've observed in the 1st Sc... joint Marines and Zealots assaulted a base. Zlots went in first, soaking all the damage. That allowed stimmed Marines to REALLY pile on the DPS without danger.

05/28/2019 08:56 AMPosted by Dereck
The Bunker nerf was massive.

I'm glad his mech/air was buffed to be more viable, but they killed bunker build.

We used to have Barracks or Bunkers, now we have Barracks or Mech. I would have preferred having all three builds.
Were you spamming and using only bunkers? For me, even with previous Stukov, I still needed other types, like Barracks or ICC (Inf. Civ. Compound). I can still use bunkers for offense, but not as much as I used to (nor as I would've liked).

This strikes me akin to how Swann and Karax are. Swann has his Laser Drill, but it's only a compliment. You're not meant to clear objectives with just that alone. Ditto with Karax. His Orbital Strikes and "offensive cannons" are strong, but you're sometimes hard pressed to be able to take objectives with either one (even if you have vision for OS). You'll want combos of other areas to shore up weaknesses of each approach.
The Queens can pop Bonuses like Pirate Ships and Floating Fish thing before they get to fire their spell. Also, each cast results in +2 Broodlings when the target dies. So you end up with a lot when they die.
For bunker comp It's a lot harder to field now that I can only manage to mass 6 now instead of the usual 8 by the end game. Though I really don't do use this comp much anymore since it's clunky for me and bunkers are relatively fragile when mobile, I pretty much build them for base defense & infested trooper trickle nowadays.
05/28/2019 02:37 AMPosted by Maltiki
As said elsewhere and by many, nerfing the swarminess of Stukov while giving it to that @*!¤# new commander (who must not be named!) is disturbing (I did not say stupid) at best.
That being said, diamondbacks still feel a bit too weak and liberators are like glass cannons. Maybe replacing the attack speed mastery 3 with reduced cool-down of mech units might be a relatively simple and easy change. And adding some regeneration to libs while attacking, maybe in the form of 15% life-steal similar to Kerrigan's ultralisks (but obviously at a lower rate), might be useful as well.
Db's indeed are not tanky units. However, I find if you sic your Infested Civilians on the enemy first (or use Infest Structure), they take a LOT of heat off of your mech, allowing them to safely deal large amounts of damage from afar.


That does not work untill late game when the creep has spread enough. That means your diamondbacks are vulnerable for a good part of the game. I do not say it is not doable, quite the opposite. On many maps, it is possible to time topbars to use as front line and wait for slow infested civilians to catch up.
The problem is that with the current nerf, Stukov's strength dropped a bit too much compared to other commanders, particularly the new stupidly-designed Stetmann.
<span class="truncated">...</span>Db's indeed are not tanky units. However, I find if you sic your Infested Civilians on the enemy first (or use Infest Structure), they take a LOT of heat off of your mech, allowing them to safely deal large amounts of damage from afar.


That does not work untill late game when the creep has spread enough. That means your diamondbacks are vulnerable for a good part of the game. I do not say it is not doable, quite the opposite. On many maps, it is possible to time topbars to use as front line and wait for slow infested civilians to catch up.
The problem is that with the current nerf, Stukov's strength dropped a bit too much compared to other commanders, particularly the new stupidly-designed Stetmann.


Rear nuking isn't what the Diamondback is designed for anyway. It's designed for front-line harass-type engagement. You're not supposed to have civilians "tank" for it as that defeats it's purpose of shooting enemies who can't catch you. Not to mention you want the faster ones to step on your slime trail. If you misjudge the range you "should" engage in and get hit too often, that's a different issue and/or might be the wrong counter for the enemy comp.

Speaking of which, the Queen is very fast now. You can run away at the sight of Scourge and ensnare them almost like a Cyclone shooting the slime backwards. It needs a bit of a lead shot, but it's possible to do it without getting hit and once you slime them, they will stop and die very fast. And because it moves so fast (like Wraith) you can often leave the front to meet a wave and slime them for Siege Tank Defensive lines to be more effective.

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