What is the role of the void ray?

General Discussion
Prev 1 2 3 5 Next
Gold leaguers gotta mass something
The only utility in PvT is early cheese with SB and in PvZ only in case of Mass-Carriers to babysit them from Corruptors.
For their pathetic AtG attack one is far better (and cheaper) to use Immortal/Disruptors.
With their fighting abilities they should have supply 3 and cost 20-30% cheaper. They nerffed to the ground the Voids but forgot to change the Supply.
With the exception of Probe all Protoss units have seen nerffs and only nerffs. Now 50% of the heavy-lifting is left to units of Mass-Destruction (Templar/Disruptors).....
I don't know. I mean, the moment you opened with, "Void Rays suck against Battlecruisers, Fleet Carriers and capital ships", my first thought was, "of course they do. That's why you have the Tempests."

If Void Rays counter capital ships, then why have the Tempest?

As a Terran, I see Void Rays as the counterpart to the Banshee and Viking rolled into one. An attack gunship with decent anti-air capabilities. When I played Random long ago, I usually used them to counter Zerg Corruptors, and if they don't have Hydralisks, Void Rays steamroll over Zerg ground armies very easily (Roach Ravager rushes - can probably hold that off with a couple of Void Rays).

When I play Terran, I'm afraid of Void Rays when I go mech, but this was before the change to the Cyclone. Void Rays just destroy mech if you don't have anti-air like Thors (which is too long to tech up to), but I think the current Cyclone is decent against Void Rays. Maybe Widow Mines would have worked, but people would just tag them with Oracles and then shoot them from afar with the Void Rays. Oh, and I remember those Void Ray-proxy Shield Battery rushes (which transits to Tempests later). Those were something to be feared. They have their counters, though, so it's not so bad. I would probably use Void Rays as Banshee-Vikings hybrids - supporting my ground forces as a gunship while providing decent anti-air.

They are certainly not meant to deal with capital ships - that's what the Tempests are for. However, against Zerg, I think they are great against Corruptors and Brood Lords. Against Terrans, usually against a meching Terran with very few Thors and relatively few Cyclones (a great way is to do Phoenix-Void Rays to graviton the Cyclones and have the Void Rays shoot them down but I guess simple mass Phoenixes would be more effective?). Sorry for the terrible answer, just providing a Terran perspective.
05/01/2019 10:47 PMPosted by Papanarbre

Actually, I think the Feedback nerf was the biggest nerf for lategame PvZ. If Protoss is so weak at this stage, it's because of mass spellcasters, abducts and MC are what tear lategame Protoss apart.

Yea, that's one of the biggest reason. I believe another reason is that hydralisk themselves could kill all interceptors right now, so the Protoss player would not build any carriers.
I'd agree - the Void Ray is marginalised in the current meta to an extent. I think that it could use some love to make it more relevant. It's super expensive and pretty useless unless hitting armored units with Prismatic Alignment. It used to be used in PvZ when Void Ray / Chargelot / Archon was a thing, but then came good Hydras.

Buffing it back into usefulness needs to be balanced with its tendency for being used in cheesey builds, especially in PvP.

I think that the Carrier is the other unit that flat out just sucks from the Stargate now, and it might need some changes to make PvZ lategame more even.

And Mothership immune to Abduct and Neural while we're at it!
05/02/2019 09:46 PMPosted by Cazdog
I'd agree - the Void Ray is marginalised in the current meta to an extent. I think that it could use some love to make it more relevant. It's super expensive and pretty useless unless hitting armored units with Prismatic Alignment. It used to be used in PvZ when Void Ray / Chargelot / Archon was a thing, but then came good Hydras.

Buffing it back into usefulness needs to be balanced with its tendency for being used in cheesey builds, especially in PvP.

I think that the Carrier is the other unit that flat out just sucks from the Stargate now, and it might need some changes to make PvZ lategame more even.

And Mothership immune to Abduct and Neural while we're at it!

IS IT CAZDOG!

All we need is Redfish, KhalDanis and Doncroft!
Weird, Void rays beat every air unit in the game except the phoenix
05/02/2019 07:20 PMPosted by AdMech
They are certainly not meant to deal with capital ships - that's what the Tempests are for.


Funny thing is, originally they were meant to counter capital ships. Prismatic Alignment change and Tempest's introduction in HotS slowly started to shift their role to anti-armored ship. Only in LotV, after nerfs to VR and buffs or changes to other air units (Corruptor, Tempest, Battlecruiser), Void Ray's usability fell to only like 3 or 4 scenarios mentioned before: cheeses, early PvZ defense and late PvZ protection against Corruptors (and even then they need support from Templars or Archons). In every other situation, getting Tempest is much better choice, and you pay just a marginally bigger price (25 gas and 1 supply).
Voidray = Anti-Armor

Phoenix = Anti-light

Tempest = Anti-massive

Carrier = DPS.

If the Scout was added, it should fill a similar role as the Liberator AA mode, AOE air splash since that is a niche that Protoss lacks to protect the air armies.
05/03/2019 06:20 AMPosted by Aurioch
05/02/2019 07:20 PMPosted by AdMech
They are certainly not meant to deal with capital ships - that's what the Tempests are for.


Funny thing is, originally they were meant to counter capital ships. Prismatic Alignment change and Tempest's introduction in HotS slowly started to shift their role to anti-armored ship. Only in LotV, after nerfs to VR and buffs or changes to other air units (Corruptor, Tempest, Battlecruiser), Void Ray's usability fell to only like 3 or 4 scenarios mentioned before: cheeses, early PvZ defense and late PvZ protection against Corruptors (and even then they need support from Templars or Archons). In every other situation, getting Tempest is much better choice, and you pay just a marginally bigger price (25 gas and 1 supply).


That is true. Their role has changed a lot ever since the introduction of the Tempest in Heart of the Swarm. Funnily enough, the Tempest itself was meant to be a 2nd Protoss capital ship that was originally a counter to Mutalisks, dealing splash damage to air units.
05/03/2019 05:27 AMPosted by LittleSmall
Weird, Void rays beat every air unit in the game except the phoenix
Strictly a-moved and not counting production speed, perhaps. Typically in air-to-air, Void Rays get overwhelmed production-wise or kited with micro. They're best as DPS against Corruptors, but even then that's alongside other units since Void Rays can still get overwhelmed by themselves.

05/03/2019 08:51 AMPosted by MyOhMind
If the Scout was added, it should fill a similar role as the Liberator AA mode, AOE air splash since that is a niche that Protoss lacks to protect the air armies.
Soooo the Corsair.

I did make a version of the Carrier that could produce Corsairs. They took up 2 or 3 Interceptor slots (I forget which) and cost gas, though. Also less burst damage than the non-Carrier version for obvious reasons. And I forget whether I made them anti-ground only or not.
The void ray is quite cost efficient against almost any armored unit. They do not have a specific role in most cases, but that is not the fault of the unit but of the current meta
05/03/2019 09:21 AMPosted by Equinox
The void ray is quite cost efficient against almost any armored unit. They do not have a specific role in most cases, but that is not the fault of the unit but of the current meta


Against ground units, sure, but since half of them (more than half if theyre armored) cant even shoot up, that's hardly special. Against air units they simply lack the ability to make the head on engagement that they need to do their jobs.

Mostly theyre good at killing buildings, which isn't nothing, but isn't enough to give them a solid place in the game either.
05/03/2019 08:51 AMPosted by MyOhMind
Voidray = Anti-Armor


05/03/2019 09:21 AMPosted by Equinox
The void ray is quite cost efficient against almost any armored unit. They do not have a specific role in most cases, but that is not the fault of the unit but of the current meta


But they are not cost efficient ! Only when they have PA (43sec cd BTW) they can fight Corruptors. Every other units can either fight them head on (similar of supply of BCs will destroy them because so many will be killed in the first few seconds thx to Yamato), or kite them.

Against air :
Viking : kite them
Medivac : outrun them
Liberators : either you have Marines/Vikings and kill them or unsiege and outrun them
Raven/Banshee : outrun them
BCs : the only scenario in which VR can win is no Yamato AND PA available. And there's always TJ

Corruptors : loose if there's PA but kill them otherwise. The only reason Zerg will go anywhere near them is because the Tempest force them to. It's the only scenario where they are actually somewhat useful. But you can't overmake them or a tech switch will kill you.
Mutalisk : Outrun them if needed, kill the VRs when in high number (same supply for both side)
Broodlord : If they can get anywhere near them it's because there's no proper support, in that scenario even Stalkers would do fine.
Viper : outrun them
Overseer : outrun them
Droplord : yeah a unit they can kill ! But they will probably die to whatever is inside

And why would you ever make them against ground ? They have less health and DPS than Immortals, even with PA. And if you are against Roach/Hydra or Marine/Marauders you have to focus fire every Roach or Marauder because of how the priority system works.

So yeah, besides cheese (using them as or defending against), some Mech build (definitly not against the mass Cyclone style) and lategame PvZ there are no use for them. And even in lategame PvZ they are not that essential and only in low number, the more they are, the more usefull PB will be. Even abduct is very worthwhile against a 250/150 unit.
05/03/2019 10:28 AMPosted by Kelthar
05/03/2019 09:21 AMPosted by Equinox
The void ray is quite cost efficient against almost any armored unit. They do not have a specific role in most cases, but that is not the fault of the unit but of the current meta


Against ground units, sure, but since half of them (more than half if theyre armored) cant even shoot up, that's hardly special. Against air units they simply lack the ability to make the head on engagement that they need to do their jobs.

Mostly theyre good at killing buildings, which isn't nothing, but isn't enough to give them a solid place in the game either.

And even at that (snipping buildings) in mid-late game is more cost& supply-efficent to drop 4 DT instead of using 6 VR.....
Not counting here that the surviving DT can be morphed to Archons.
Last nerffs from Moroneteam crippled the Protoss Air-Power.
With the current stats only Carriers supply 5 and VR supply 3 makes remotely sense.....

Several people has noticed and calculated that for 6 Old-Carriers you need 9-10New (crippled)ones to do the same thing.
Supply-cap is still 200.
05/03/2019 10:47 AMPosted by Papanarbre
05/03/2019 08:51 AMPosted by MyOhMind
Voidray = Anti-Armor


05/03/2019 09:21 AMPosted by Equinox
The void ray is quite cost efficient against almost any armored unit. They do not have a specific role in most cases, but that is not the fault of the unit but of the current meta


But they are not cost efficient ! Only when they have PA (43sec cd BTW) they can fight Corruptors. Every other units can either fight them head on (similar of supply of BCs will destroy them because so many will be killed in the first few seconds thx to Yamato), or kite them.

Against air :
Viking : kite them
Medivac : outrun them
Liberators : either you have Marines/Vikings and kill them or unsiege and outrun them
Raven/Banshee : outrun them
BCs : the only scenario in which VR can win is no Yamato AND PA available. And there's always TJ

Corruptors : loose if there's PA but kill them otherwise. The only reason Zerg will go anywhere near them is because the Tempest force them to. It's the only scenario where they are actually somewhat useful. But you can't overmake them or a tech switch will kill you.
Mutalisk : Outrun them if needed, kill the VRs when in high number (same supply for both side)
Broodlord : If they can get anywhere near them it's because there's no proper support, in that scenario even Stalkers would do fine.
Viper : outrun them
Overseer : outrun them
Droplord : yeah a unit they can kill ! But they will probably die to whatever is inside

And why would you ever make them against ground ? They have less health and DPS than Immortals, even with PA. And if you are against Roach/Hydra or Marine/Marauders you have to focus fire every Roach or Marauder because of how the priority system works.

So yeah, besides cheese (using them as or defending against), some Mech build (definitly not against the mass Cyclone style) and lategame PvZ there are no use for them. And even in lategame PvZ they are not that essential and only in low number, the more they are, the more usefull PB will be. Even abduct is very worthwhile against a 250/150 unit.


Could have not put it better!

+1000000000000000000000
05/03/2019 10:47 AMPosted by Papanarbre
05/03/2019 08:51 AMPosted by MyOhMind
Voidray = Anti-Armor


05/03/2019 09:21 AMPosted by Equinox
The void ray is quite cost efficient against almost any armored unit. They do not have a specific role in most cases, but that is not the fault of the unit but of the current meta


But they are not cost efficient ! Only when they have PA (43sec cd BTW) they can fight Corruptors. Every other units can either fight them head on (similar of supply of BCs will destroy them because so many will be killed in the first few seconds thx to Yamato), or kite them.

Against air :
Viking : kite them
Medivac : outrun them
Liberators : either you have Marines/Vikings and kill them or unsiege and outrun them
Raven/Banshee : outrun them
BCs : the only scenario in which VR can win is no Yamato AND PA available. And there's always TJ

Corruptors : loose if there's PA but kill them otherwise. The only reason Zerg will go anywhere near them is because the Tempest force them to. It's the only scenario where they are actually somewhat useful. But you can't overmake them or a tech switch will kill you.
Mutalisk : Outrun them if needed, kill the VRs when in high number (same supply for both side)
Broodlord : If they can get anywhere near them it's because there's no proper support, in that scenario even Stalkers would do fine.
Viper : outrun them
Overseer : outrun them
Droplord : yeah a unit they can kill ! But they will probably die to whatever is inside

And why would you ever make them against ground ? They have less health and DPS than Immortals, even with PA. And if you are against Roach/Hydra or Marine/Marauders you have to focus fire every Roach or Marauder because of how the priority system works.

So yeah, besides cheese (using them as or defending against), some Mech build (definitly not against the mass Cyclone style) and lategame PvZ there are no use for them. And even in lategame PvZ they are not that essential and only in low number, the more they are, the more usefull PB will be. Even abduct is very worthwhile against a 250/150 unit.

So if the speed was made better and it was made more microable, would that improve the voidray?.
05/03/2019 11:06 AMPosted by MyOhMind
So if the speed was made better and it was made more microable, would that improve the voidray?.

Sure. I don't know that it would be a good idea to let it be a "kill anything armored" death lazor again, but within the context of that being its job, it would at least do it well against non-battlecruisers.
Void ray role is more important in team games, because its the only reliable counter to the protoss air armada while still being usable vs everything else, I always go mass voids after the phoenix wars in team games
05/03/2019 11:06 AMPosted by MyOhMind
So if the speed was made better and it was made more microable, would that improve the voidray?


Well that's why I talked about the shoot while moving.

If you just make them faster, then they will role over the Vikings, which is not really the goal.

But if they attack with a simple move command, then it becomes more risky for the Terran. It's like Phoenix (without range) against Mutas, in theory the Phoenix should never be hit, but nobody is perfect.
Instead of staying at 6 range, you could micro your VR closer to the Viking, and the closer you can get, the more damage you will be able to inflict because you will continue to chase as soon as they start running. Basically, it would punish more micro mistakes from the Terran if the Protoss micros well.

It would be similar vs Corruptors, but not by as big of a margin because of the much higher speed of Corruptors. That's ok, since they are already used vs Corruptors. And like I said, the more there are, the more PB/Fungal will be useful, so they can never be massed.

That being said, it wouldn't improve them in any other scenario. You still wouldn't make them against ground in the current meta.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum