Bio buff?

General Discussion
2 2 without an armory would obviously be op.
05/23/2019 07:25 PMPosted by AdMech
...Thor is not a biological unit.

In that context by "bio" I meant "bio playstyle", not "all the bio units".
I think you know that though, dunno what you are trying to do.
05/23/2019 07:35 PMPosted by Equinox
Sure, that the thor was returned to his previous strength (when the bio was played all the time)

Maybe we can return mules and banelins to their previous strength aswell? I wouldn't mind. Oh, and HotS eco model too, when you could defend on 3 bases for 20 minutes.
05/23/2019 07:35 PMPosted by Equinox
You can't buff a race because players of other race plays better, that's absurd

I did not say they played better. I said they developed their play. Like terrans developed their micro and macro and now we have the same old bio against magical warp prisms, superman zealots and fat banelings.

I am not trying to lobby buffs for terrans here just to make the race stronger. I want bio to be buffed as a viewer, not as a player. I miss those back and forth TvZ games. Like Rogue vs Innovation at IEM qualifier on Port Alexander. That game was amazing to watch. But I really don't think we are going to see anything like that again any time soon. Zergs used to think carefully before making drones in the middle of the game. Now bio just doesn't have enough tempo to punish zergs for that. I mean it's possible only if zerg was caught unprepeared or zerg failed a big push. But if it's just an ordinary macro game, terran can't do much in midgame. I like it when there is a lot of action in midgame, micro battles here and there, counter-attacks, borrowed banelings, sneaky drops etc. Don't you miss such games too?
You say you are one of the highest ranked players here. Then you can tell me are you as careful with squeezing additional drones in ZvT as in ZvP or ZvZ? Do you often feel that 6 additional drones can make a difference in upcoming fights when you play against bio? I honestly doubt that you can say "yes, it's the same as in ZvZ/ZvP".
05/22/2019 12:09 PMPosted by CinC
Terran players have been using mech more and more often lately


Yes gods prevent that a race designed around two different and separate playstyles might be able to play them both in all matchups.
Better buff bio so we can go back to the blessed times of having casters wondering whether the best terran in the world will go for bio play... or bio play
Other Protoss units feel a little weak compared to immortals. How should we buff Protoss so everything is as strong as immortals?
05/24/2019 05:41 AMPosted by Shahzad
Other Protoss units feel a little weak compared to immortals. How should we buff Protoss so everything is as strong as immortals?

Last time i checked the Immortal was more expensive and his upgrades took longer to hit. What happened?
I know a good way of buffing bio

you just have to nerf mech
05/23/2019 07:25 PMPosted by AdMech
...Thor is not a biological unit.

In that context by "bio" I meant "bio playstyle", not "all the bio units".
I think you know that though, dunno what you are trying to do.


To my knowledge, bio playstyle does not involve building Thors unless in very niche scenarios when the opponents build Mutalisks, and they tend to become obsolete as long as you have just one or two Thors accompanying your bio. And bio playstyle relies more on Widow Mines anyway.

You don't use Thors in TvP with bio playstyle, and you don't use Thors in TvT with bio playstyle, and you certainly won't build Thors with bio playstyle in TvZ if the opponent goes for Hydralisks-Lurkers-Roaches or Brood Lords or Zergling-Baneling-Ultralisks or any Zerg composition that doesn't rely on Mutalisks. In essence you're complaining about Thor nerf being a bio nerf just because of a single scenario out of so many different matchups and compositions.

I dunno what YOU are trying to do.
05/24/2019 08:57 AMPosted by AdMech
To my knowledge, bio playstyle does not involve building Thors unless in very niche scenarios when the opponents build Mutalisks

I was talking about confronting muta-ling-bane specifically. Maybe if you read first what is this about... actually, whatever.
05/24/2019 05:41 AMPosted by Shahzad
Other Protoss units feel a little weak compared to immortals. How should we buff Protoss so everything is as strong as immortals?

The problem there is the warp prism. It gives all protoss units blink on top of being a flying powerfield that can teleport production rounds anywhere on the map. It's a hero unit like the mothership core.

Warp prisms can keep up with roaches, which means with the load and unload micro immortals can a) shoot while moving, b) move as fast as roaches, C) they dodge any shots sent at them making them basically invincible.

I think at a bare minimum they need to make a warp prism have to come to a complete stop to pick up a unit or all we are going to see is zergs getting wrecked by warp prisms in ZvP. Right now it makes protoss units impossible to deal with and it, itself, is virtually untargetable too. Adding more restrictions to pickup micro, such as the warp prism having to stop moving to pickup units, would make the prism more targetable.
05/24/2019 09:55 AMPosted by CinC

I was talking about confronting muta-ling-bane specifically. Maybe if you read first what is this about... actually, whatever.


You were talking about bio getting nerfed. You equated Thor nerf -> bio being weaker against Mutalingbane -> bio nerf. Therefore bio needs a buff to fight Mutalisks. Which is a complete leap in logic. Especially since if you buff bio, it's not just against Mutalisks, but it will definitely have an impact on all the other matchups (against Protoss, against other Zerg units, against mirror matches).
Maybe we can return mules and banelins to their previous strength aswell?
Yes of course since we are in that we can return the spawning larvae to 4 and remove all the buff that the siege tank have or we could divide the attack of the marauders in two again and increase the armor of the ultras to 5 :D.
05/24/2019 10:10 AMPosted by Equinox
Maybe we can return mules and banelins to their previous strength aswell?
Yes of course since we are in that we can return the spawning larvae to 4 and remove all the buff that the siege tank have or we could divide the attack of the marauders in two again and increase the armor of the ultras to 5 :D.


If you want spawning larvae to return to 4, Banelings to be returned to their previous strength, Ultralisks' armor back to 5, and Marauders to be nerfed, then please do not touch the siege tank.

Also, I would appreciate it if we get +1 armor back for Thors to correspond with the Ultralisks' +5 armor.
05/24/2019 02:35 AMPosted by JackONeill
05/22/2019 12:09 PMPosted by CinC
Terran players have been using mech more and more often lately


Yes gods prevent that a race designed around two different and separate playstyles might be able to play them both in all matchups.
Better buff bio so we can go back to the blessed times of having casters wondering whether the best terran in the world will go for bio play... or bio play


And once this is done we’d see more "mech is not viable" and #maketerrangreatagain threads pop up until mech gets more massive buffs and this vicious cycle will never end.
05/24/2019 10:07 AMPosted by AdMech
05/24/2019 09:55 AMPosted by CinC

I was talking about confronting muta-ling-bane specifically. Maybe if you read first what is this about... actually, whatever.


You were talking about bio getting nerfed. You equated Thor nerf -> bio being weaker against Mutalingbane -> bio nerf. Therefore bio needs a buff to fight Mutalisks. Which is a complete leap in logic. Especially since if you buff bio, it's not just against Mutalisks, but it will definitely have an impact on all the other matchups (against Protoss, against other Zerg units, against mirror matches).


Some players liked to build pre-nerfed javelin missile thors against mutas instead of only widow mines, is what hes trying to get at but that strat was nerfed..
And rightly so. Bio players could totally invalidate a flock of Mutalisks with just 1 or 2 Thors...

I understand the pain, but bio playstyle has other tools to deal with Mutalisks besides Thors. Widow Mines is an option, building more Thors is another. Maybe buff the Liberators anti-air back to normal, to have +2 damage against light? I don't know. In the past, I even faced a Terran player who spammed Ghosts' Snipes on my Mutalisks (maybe that was in Heart of the Swarm). I ended up killing him with mass Roaches (I was playing Random back then).

And if you were going for Thors against Mutalisks anyway, you were going to have an Armory, so why "lower" the requirement for +2+2 upgrades to Factory? And how will Medivacs healing units inside help against Mutalisks?
05/24/2019 10:29 AMPosted by ZXOmegaXZ
Some players liked to build pre-nerfed javelin missile thors against mutas instead of only widow mines, is what hes trying to get at but that strat was nerfed..

[/quote]
yeah well some players like actually being able to play MLB but have been unable too for the longest time.
And rightly so. Bio players could totally invalidate a flock of Mutalisks with just 1 or 2 Thors...

I understand the pain, but bio playstyle has other tools to deal with Mutalisks besides Thors. Widow Mines is an option, building more Thors is another. Maybe buff the Liberators anti-air back to normal, to have +2 damage against light? I don't know.

And if you were going for Thors against Mutalisks anyway, you were going to have an Armory, so why "lower" the requirement for +2+2 upgrades to Factory? And how will Medivacs healing units inside help against Mutalisks?


Edit: I'm not the op i'm just trying to explain what the guy was trying to get at. When he was saying thor nerf was also a bio nerf.
05/24/2019 10:35 AMPosted by AdMech
Maybe buff the Liberators anti-air back to normal, to have +2 damage against light?


Their not going to do that, they for some reason refuse to make the liberator aoe into splash so that it can be properly balanced. Tested lib vs non-clumped phoenixes and focus firing the middle phoenix caused the outer ones to blow up. Compared to the thor which the phoenix have to be stacked on top of each other to get an even remotely similar affect.
05/24/2019 10:35 AMPosted by AdMech
And rightly so. Bio players could totally invalidate a flock of Mutalisks with just 1 or 2 Thors...

I understand the pain, but bio playstyle has other tools to deal with Mutalisks besides Thors. Widow Mines is an option, building more Thors is another. Maybe buff the Liberators anti-air back to normal, to have +2 damage against light? I don't know. In the past, I even faced a Terran player who spammed Ghosts' Snipes on my Mutalisks (maybe that was in Heart of the Swarm). I ended up killing him with mass Roaches (I was playing Random back then).

And if you were going for Thors against Mutalisks anyway, you were going to have an Armory, so why "lower" the requirement for +2+2 upgrades to Factory? And how will Medivacs healing units inside help against Mutalisks?


That's all assuming bio does have a problem dealing with Mutalisks. Here's the truth: it doesn't.
05/24/2019 10:35 AMPosted by AdMech
And if you were going for Thors against Mutalisks anyway, you were going to have an Armory, so why "lower" the requirement for +2+2 upgrades to Factory? And how will Medivacs healing units inside help against Mutalisks?

ROFL I was not even talking to you, I was responding to the statement that nothing was patched in TvZ. I said "it's not quite true", then you intervened. Damn, it's tough to have a reasonable conversation here.

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