terran mech is impossible to kill

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05/15/2019 07:40 PMPosted by llllllllllll
05/15/2019 06:37 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
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There is more terran whine in this thread than anything else. OP suggests mech is too strong defensively (and he is right) and he is instantly dog piled with useless responses like "lol just make infestors" (infestors are near worthless vs mech thanks to siege tanks, so the people telling him to make infestors need to l2p and stop whining about infestors of all units).


Posting statistics that force him to ask questions he doesn't like the answers to is "whining."

Saying Terran is "OP," "unkillable," and posts a replay where he was outplayed in almost every way is "not whining."

Where did I say that? Link to it now.
As a mech player, one of the things I find scariest about Zerg are Vipers and Infestors. Blinding Cloud renders my siege tanks useless (well, nearly) while Neural Parasite on my Thors and Battlecruisers is just...yeah.

Another thing to keep in mind is map awareness. There are plenty of times when I lose my tanks because my opponent anticipated me moving out and hits me right before I siege them, or abducts my tanks into their Hydralisks. And I recall a good game where my opponent flanked and attacked my mech army from three different directions, and just devastated me because my tank fire and splash were split. Additionally, mech is slow unless you're playing battlemech (Hellion-Cyclone), so there are also a few times when he would use hit-and-run tactics and withdrew his army right before I can directly plow into them.
05/15/2019 06:37 PMPosted by tEhbAtZ
05/15/2019 10:38 AMPosted by llllllllllll
#onlyterranplayerswhine

There is more terran whine in this thread than anything else. OP suggests mech is too strong defensively (and he is right) and he is instantly dog piled with useless responses like "lol just make infestors" (infestors are near worthless vs mech thanks to siege tanks, so the people telling him to make infestors need to l2p and stop whining about infestors of all units).


Do you actually have to come and stink up every thread on this forum?
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The thing with the opening in TvZ it is all about positioning.

The Terran needs to micro those helions to do damage. If he loses them he has nothing to defend and taking a third will be hard.

So your options are:
- Flank them from behind with zerglings while you have queens in front. You can trade your zerglings for the helions no problems. You will have freedom to drone afterwards.
- Make about 7 roaches. Hardest option IMO. Your macro has to be good for this one and you need to know when to continue powering through and when to stop.
- Banelings. They can trade for the helions but positioning is again key here. You need to catch them or he will kite you for days. Don't engage if you don't have too.

From there on it is a race against the clock where you have a slight head start.

If he goes battle mech, go Hydra ling. Again positioning is key. He needs to move all the time with this composition so restrict his movement with flanking and force him into a corner. One wipe and he is dead.

If he goes static mech you have time but not much. Get to vipers or infestors. He will have difficulty moving out and getting to your base. Trade and delay you should get him.

Hope it helps.


hydra-ling is very weak against hellions with blue flame.


It is if the helions are micro'd. You use the lings to surround the battle mech player while the hydras kill everything. The lings are fast so you can micro them to not get killed and force him into a corner.
just play protoss or make vipers
05/15/2019 05:56 PMPosted by llllllllllll
When I play with my GM Zerg friend on EU, I !@#$ up a lot of the micro things, he just always gives me so much army I almost can't lose.


That's not specific to any race or almost any comp. Although if you mess up micro with banelings it's very easy to lose the game since your army won't exist anymore.

05/15/2019 05:56 PMPosted by llllllllllll
Hydra Ling Bane works wonders in all 3 matchs ups against almost any unit comp.


That is definitely not true. LBH is bad in ZvZ and almost never used. It gets crushed by mass roach/ravager.
05/15/2019 05:56 PMPosted by llllllllllll
When I play with my GM Zerg friend on EU, I !@#$ up a lot of the micro things, he just always gives me so much army I almost can't lose.


That's not specific to any race or almost any comp. Although if you mess up micro with banelings it's very easy to lose the game since your army won't exist anymore.

[/quote]

No. That's incorrect. If your army gets obliterated as Terran, you don't have the production to just poop out another army in one production cycle.

As for your ZVZ comment, usually we don't even make it there. ZVZ is a piece of !@#$.
05/16/2019 07:48 AMPosted by llllllllllll
No. That's incorrect. If your army gets obliterated as Terran, you don't have the production to just poop out another army in one production cycle.


Zerg doesn't either unless you're massively ahead. Don't know why you think Zerg armies are free and expendable.

05/16/2019 07:48 AMPosted by llllllllllll
As for your ZVZ comment, usually we don't even make it there. ZVZ is a piece of !@#$.


Roaches come before hydras so the stage of the game is irrelevant.
OMG, Shaz. Zerg has more production than Terran. That's just a fact.

Jesus you act like you are at a disadvantage in every way.

!@#$ I've heard you %^-*! about:
1. Having less scouting info than a Terran (like what in the @#$%? I have one reaper, you have like 15 overlords).
2. The late game (really?)
3. Micro mechanics (again, really?)

and now you're gonna ^-*!@ about production?

I'll be the first to admit that going

1. F1
2. Box select queen
3. Inject the hatch
4. repeat for 3 to 4 bases every 30 seconds

is harder than me going

1. 5
2. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

But every time I bring up any advantage a Zerg might have you act like there's no way. You always act like it take 5 hands and 12 #$%^-es to play Zerg, then turn around and *!@#$ any time anyone suggests that maybe the pros know what they're talking about when they say Terran is harder.
Bourne - Zerg can win fights without micro, lose armies for free and replenish them immediately

Me - That's not true

Bourne - OMG YOU'RE SUCH A WHINER. LET ME TELL YOU WHY TERRAN IS SO HARD NOW...
What you're saying was true in HOTS but it's not in LOTV. Zerg's production is better than Terran's but the margin is much smaller than it used to be and the same goes for economy. Zerg has to take fights cost effectively otherwise they'll be significantly behind.
05/16/2019 09:07 AMPosted by Shahzad
What you're saying was true in HOTS but it's not in LOTV. Zerg's production is better than Terran's but the margin is much smaller than it used to be and the same goes for economy. Zerg has to take fights cost effectively otherwise they'll be significantly behind.

As the terran YOLO's free stuff at the zerg and turtles with tanks.
05/16/2019 09:01 AMPosted by Shahzad
Bourne - Zerg can win fights without micro, lose armies for free and replenish them immediately

Me - That's not true

Bourne - OMG YOU'RE SUCH A WHINER. LET ME TELL YOU WHY TERRAN IS SO HARD NOW...


I said, Zerg has harder and more vital macro mechanics, but that Terran had harder and more crucial micro.

Remember when I asked you to find ONE expert opinion agreeing with you that Zerg was harder, and you came up with some piece of !@#$ from 2010 written by a complete nobody?

You have your little sissy squad go around down-voting anybody who disagrees with you, but just because you and Batz say Zerg is harer than Terran, doesn't mean that ANYONE (seriously, I've asked 6 different ZERG GM players and they all admitted Terran was harder) outside the forums agrees.

Now go back to crying when I post stats that disagree with your "Terran OP! #Korea!" feelings... Jesus, kitten. You've been crying for a year and half while maintaining a really good win %. I can only imagine what you'd be like if Terran were favored, princess, probably worse than Batz at that point.
05/16/2019 09:13 AMPosted by llllllllllll
Remember when I asked you to find ONE expert opinion agreeing with you that Zerg was harder, and you came up with some piece of !@#$ from 2010 written by a complete nobody?


Let me say this one more time for you. NOBODY CARES WHICH RACE YOU THINK IS HARDER. YOU'RE NOT SPECIAL, TERRAN PLAYERS AREN'T SPECIAL, TERRAN ISN'T EXTRA DIFFICULT. GET OVER YOURSELVES.

Now, I was talking about the design of the race and it's not what you claim. Zerg cannot careless throw away units and stay even with Terran. That's not how the game works.
05/16/2019 09:13 AMPosted by llllllllllll
I said, Zerg has harder and more vital macro mechanics, but that Terran had harder and more crucial micro.

That is not true anymore. It was true in Heart of the Swarm but not anymore. The only thing that made Taryn challenging was stim micro. It was extremely challenging during Heart of the Swarm because of the muta ling bane vs bio mine medivac combination. Back then, there were numerous micro moves the zerg could do that could completely reverse the outcome of widow mines. There are professional games where the Terran loses an entire Army loaded into medevacs to a stray widow mine hit.

This isn't the case anymore. They replaced the Widow mine with the siege tank and added the Liberator on top of that. These units dramatically simplified terrans micro as well as terrans in-game decision-making. The only thing they have to worry about now is simple splitting add stutter-stepping. This isn't impressive at all because all three races have to do it. And that's assuming that you play bio which you absolutely don't have to do you can go for various styles of Mech and they're EVEN EASIER to play.

Zerg on the other hand became much harder to play. The inject Nerf made zergs macro much harder. The queen and creep spread Nerfs made zergs defense even more difficult. All of the mid-game tools you used in Heart of the Swarm were nerfed, ie infestors and mutas, and replaced with weaker units like hydralisks and swarm hosts and ravagers.

Playing Zerg in Legacy of the Void is extremely difficult, and the same cannot be said for Taryn.

Similar reasoning applies to protoss. They became infinitely harder to play because of the added Dynamics like adepts and the colossus being nerfed etc, not to mention the deletion of the mothership core. Liberators, Ravens and ghosts were also enormous Nerfs to all things protoss.
05/16/2019 09:26 AMPosted by tEhbAtZ
you can go for various styles of Mech and they're EVEN EASIER to play.


It still blows my mind how mech is the easiest, most a-move unit comp in the game and they act like it's difficult.
I hate how you constantly turn threads into huge whine fests and *%@*%#*@ measuring contests Bourne. You're going back on block now.
05/16/2019 09:35 AMPosted by Shahzad
05/16/2019 09:26 AMPosted by tEhbAtZ
you can go for various styles of Mech and they're EVEN EASIER to play.


It still blows my mind how mech is the easiest, most a-move unit comp in the game and they act like it's difficult.

Just look at how these Cyclone hellion composition works. It's remarkably similar to how bio mine worked in Heart of the Swarm, but with dramatically simplified micro for the Terran. Back then the Terran burrowed some mines and then stimmed and stutter stepped backwards into rallies of reinforcements and he continued to burrow mines and stutter step backwards as he shelled your units.

Cyclone Hellion does the same thing. You pause for a second to get a lock with the Cyclones and then you run backwards. The hellions are there to take care of large swarms of small units in the same fashion that the Widow mines were used to take care of them.

It's almost identical, with the exception that the micro is dramatically simplified. It's literally just move clicking Cyclones forward, then move clicking them backwards. That's it. And it can work all the way up into Grandmaster League.
Batz and Shahzard are the same exact person unless they are willing to prove it otherwise by taking a picture of their hands.
I play mech, admittedly because I suck at micro, and it really is easier for me to play mech than bio. Also because I like giant robots, and I tend to rely on tough, high-health units to tank damage while dishing out overwhelming firepower. In that respect, mech is one of the easier compositions to play.

However, it is also one of the easiest compositions to screw up on, especially if you mess up your positional play, aren't good on your timings (being attacked when unsieged or moving out), vulnerable to flanks (even if you play Hellion-Cyclone, a good opponent can still surround you before you get away). Hellion-Cyclone is a glass cannon - it's fast and mobile, but they have their counters, such as Vipers' abduct, and Cyclones are not cheap and easily replenished.

No matter what composition, style, race or strategy you play, each has its own strengths and weaknesses, each will have its own easy aspects and difficult aspects. It's up to the individual to find which style or composition or race suits him best.

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