PvP how to stop the fourgate?

Protoss Discussion
So i scout my opponent and see he is chronoing his cybernetics and see only one gateway. Usually what has been happening is we both fourgate but that is getting retarded....Im wondering if i could pull a two gateway rush or something like that off?
If its a small map, you could 2gate rush him.... or proxy 2gate if it's a larger map, but that's a bit more risker. Always practice builds you are thinking about trying however.

Other counters:
2gate Robo and corno boost out 2 stalkers to kill / push back the proxy pylon (allows time for your immortal to get out) also have at least 2-3 sentries to keep FFing the ramp. The 4gater will run out of money around the 7:30 mark. Then you can completely push him back then, and tech to Colossus. (hit when you have 2, make sure you have an obs in his base to see if he is getting late Colossus or trying to expand.

4gate yourself (defensive 4gates win)

Hang out in Myco's Mentoring Channel
thanks lipton will try
I beat it several times by cannoning in and having 2 gates pumping zealots/stalkers/sentries and teching straight to dts. When the dts warp in send them to his mineral line then reinforce with more dts to hold off the units he has. Also to note is this works in Bronze and no sure if it would in higher levels of play.
2 gate works wonders against 4 gating on any map that you don't spawn cross positions in or isn't a huge ground distance between your enemy (Looking at you scrap station)

the BO I use for it is:

9 pylon
12 gate
second gate when you get 150 minerals
pylon
cut probes at 16
Zealot (chrono)
Restart probe production once your
Pylon
Zealot (chrono)
Zealot (Chrono)

Move out with the three zealots, and then keep on building probes, and pylons.

I tend to build an assimilator once my guys are half way across the map and get a cyber core a bit later. When you get to the opponents base, if he has a single stalker and zealot, Kill the zealot and then b-line to the probe line. Send a SINGLE zealot to keep the stalker occupied in kiting while your others go to town on the probe line.

REMEMBER this is NOT meant to kill him right here. The best way to use this rush is to damage / cripple his econ for the long game. Most likely, if he goes four gate or 3 gate robo, So once his warp gates are complete, BE CAREFUL, and concider falling back and focusing on your defense.

Depending on how well he defends the 2 gate pressure, the most important thing for you to do is defend the initial 4 gate push he should make. (given that you probably only have 2-3 gateways.) If you defend the initial push up your ramp, your econ is usually better to allow you to tech / expand in safety.
2 gate robo will absolutely not hold a 4 gate.
If you want to hold a 4-gate, you have to mirror your protoss opponent up until you have 3 gates. If you can pump units off of 3 gates with 2 gas and have a sentry or two, you will hold a 4-gate AND lay down a robo at the same time, and then win because you are ahead in tech. Here are several replays of me doing it, including one on Delta Quadrant where he warped in the back.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/155868-1v1-protoss-backwater-gulch (this is actually on Typhon peaks, don't know why it says BG)

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/155869-1v1-protoss-xelnaga-caverns

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/155870-1v1-protoss-delta-quadrant
Incidentally, for 2-gate, if you do 9 pylon, 12 gate, 13 gate and don't use a single CB, you will have exactly 100 chrono boost once your second gate pops up.
03/29/2011 9:11 AMPosted by Gospy
2 gate robo will absolutely not hold a 4 gate.


Defensive three gate robo will.
03/29/2011 9:11 AMPosted by Gospy
2 gate robo will absolutely not hold a 4 gate.


It can, so can a 3gate Robo... when it comes down to it, the Roboer just has "bring it" and out micro the 4gater of equal skill. Survive till 7:30 and the Robo guy will be ahead.
There are only a handful of builds that really HOLD 4 gates assuming both players micro equally well. They basically fall into 2 categories:
1) builds that gain map control using 3 stalkers before warp gate finishes. The 4 gater will have two zealots and a stalker, which can't protect a probe going to build the proxy pylon. He pushes out with his 1st set of 4 stalkers, but his proxy pylon won't be ready until after he needs to warp in his zealots. 6 stalkers and 2 zealots with no vision to the top of the ramp is not very scary.

2) 3 sentry builds. If you open zealot, sentry, sentry, sentry from 3 gates followed by a robo, you have enough energy to throw down a FF at the bottom of the ramp, and a 2nd one at the top once he warps in his zealots. Without 4 zealots chasing your army, you get free shots at his zealots once you warp in your stalkers. By the time you are out of energy, your immortal is ready and most of his zealots are either dead or badly hurt. He can't break your ramp w/ just 6 stalkers so he has to pull back, and you are ahead on tech.

3) super fast immortal builds. I know they are out there, I just don't know the specifics for them.

Alternatively, you can always cannon rush him :D. Seriously though, if you can force him to go forge before cyber by throwing down a forge, 2 pylons, and 2-3 cannons, you're actually ahead. He lost a lot of mining time attacking your cannons, and it will take him time to finish killing them off. If you transition into an expo and a bunch of gates pumping zealots until your warpgate tech is finished, you're at a major advantage.
There are only a handful of builds that really HOLD 4 gates assuming both players micro equally well. They basically fall into 2 categories:
1) builds that gain map control using 3 stalkers before warp gate finishes.


This. The only way you can lose to a 4-gate when doing this is if they can somehow hide their proxy pylon in the middle of nowhere. Or if they drop it somewhere in the middle of the map far away from your base.
03/29/2011 12:10 PMPosted by Brainpower
1) builds that gain map control using 3 stalkers before warp gate finishes. The 4 gater will have two zealots and a stalker, which can't protect a probe going to build the proxy pylon.


Here's Artosis demonstrating how to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb_X8Jlfj5g
thanks guys for the tips. I watched your vids wyrd and them were very helpful showing the defensive 4 gate and 3 gate robo. Nice sentry micro btw
While playing, most people who 4gate me tend to build their pylons in my natural expansion area. I tend to build 2 pylons at the ramp so I can warp stuff up the ramp and the zealots are now with their army, forcing them to kite and do almost no damage. I haven't lost doing a 4gate to a 3g robo on the NA nor the EU realms yet, so I am wondering if people are not warping stuff up the ramp and just warping it nearby? Also, my micro is pretty bad so my opponents all had the micro advantage.

I have not watched the replays, but can I assume that the 4gater built the pylon at the natural rather than at the ramp?

Edit: I must say, 3 gate stalker is a good build to stop it, but it's auto lose if you don't catch the probe.

Edit2: And as the second person said, 2gate / proxy 2gate (and cannon rushes for that matter) do stop 4 gates really well. Although 2 gate's effectiveness is limited to close positions or a small map.
5 stalker rush beats 90% of Protoss.
Perfect 4gate cant be stopped if allowed to happen -.-...
Either 4gate urself,2gate,proxy 2gate,3-5stalker rush,or 3gate robo(which beats most 4gate if you can do it very well,and make no mistake at all)
If I think they're going to 4gate I generally go for an early forge/cannons and warp in sentries. All the while I'll continue building a 3gate robo setup, or even my own 4gate.

Any sort of early defense can ruin a 4gate if done even half decently.
If I think they're going to 4gate I generally go for an early forge/cannons and warp in sentries. All the while I'll continue building a 3gate robo setup, or even my own 4gate.

Any sort of early defense can ruin a 4gate if done even half decently.


Then they pull back when they see cannons, expand and get robo or 1 cannons in case of Dts and come back with 6-7 gates on 2 bases to your 3 gates cannons.
If I think they're going to 4gate I generally go for an early forge/cannons and warp in sentries. All the while I'll continue building a 3gate robo setup, or even my own 4gate.

Any sort of early defense can ruin a 4gate if done even half decently.


Then they pull back when they see cannons, expand and get robo or 1 cannons in case of Dts and come back with 6-7 gates on 2 bases to your 3 gates cannons.


I could come up with a retort, but I fail to see how running a text based battle will solve anything, pretty much every build posted here can be re-countered in some way or another.

So instead, I will counter their second expansion with a plethora of fluffy kittens. Game ended.

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