Civilization Sapphire

Map Showcase
Prev 1 2 3 20 Next
The ability for buildings to refund a fraction of their cost when canceled is less than ideal when the cost of a building isn't the same as the amount paid for the building.

So the refund fraction is greatly reduced for now in order to prevent the blatant exploitation of this unfortunate reality. I am currently unaware of an more effective solution to this issue.



Also fyi if you kill a overlord with the ring carrier the ring doesn't come back.
An unintended effect. It's fixed now, but you'll probably still lose it if the overlord is over water, etc.
I think that you should give us a hint as to what the ring does or tell us if it does anything other than simply giving life regeneration.
I do like this map, I have several suggestions, a type of "Castle" that you can capture, or The Sapphire Citadel, in other words.

If you kill the Citadel, all the hostiles will come under your control, and you will be granted a technology grants all of your units a buff: 20% Damage/ 50% more HP/20% less Damage taken/20% more Speed.

And you will be granted of course, the Sapphire Citadel, which can be captured by others player, and taken away, of course, it wouldn't be easy to get in the first place, with all the hostiles, this would act as a City/Farm/ and mine, producing constant resources.

Also, this game has a bug, the end does not finish, in V.1.0. even if a player kills all the others.

Also a line of "Hero" units would be cool, such as a "Barbarian Hero" in Stone Age, "Hoplite Hero" then "Archer Hero" etc et.

I do hope this map will stay at the top, it is quite good, and I wish you good luck.
I just played a game, and my ally left early game which boosted me far into the lead. I think that if your ally leaves it should be given to hostile computer, not you.
The ability for buildings to refund a fraction of their cost when canceled is less than ideal when the cost of a building isn't the same as the amount paid for the building.

So the refund fraction is greatly reduced for now in order to prevent the blatant exploitation of this unfortunate reality. I am currently unaware of an more effective solution to this issue.



Also fyi if you kill a overlord with the ring carrier the ring doesn't come back.
An unintended effect. It's fixed now, but you'll probably still lose it if the overlord is over water, etc.


If that first part was about the upgradable buildings thing I mentioned I think you misunderstood. I'm saying rather than having to build a bunch of, for example, hospitals, just have me build one and let me click to upgrade it at the current increasing cost structure and have it function as 1 extra hospital per upgrade. If that still isn't clear go play nexus wars real quick and see how they do the pylon, you'll quickly see what I'm saying.
I’d like to start out by saying that I love the work you’ve put into detailing and balancing the terrain, as well as the element of territory control / balancing tech and army growth, but there are a couple things about this map that are very, very, very bothersome:

The neutral-hostile units guarding the mines are a chore to clear through, and prevent you from scouting your opponents or being aggressive early (unless you spawn on the same green island zone as someone else). This really makes the first half-hour of the game very tedious, and the midgame can become a coinflip unless you play incredibly defensively. Also, I can’t count on both hands how many times I’ve seen noobies ragequit after having neutrals aggro them and start tearing up their base =/…

Speaking of defense, I don’t think I’ve ever had any of my close-spawning neighbors survive my attacks. When I am about to reach the edge of my spawn, I start cutting tech for farms / garrisons, then make 14+ melee units and attack move into him. It’s just about impossible to tell whether or not somebody is going to bust through territory you haven’t cleared yet with a bunch of dudes and clobber you.

Also, I keep getting SCV’s stuck behind constructed buildings >_< maybe you could change the collision sizes of structures? -EDIT: Ever since the patch, I haven't had this issue anymore, cool beans!
Awesome map! I love it, are there really secrets?
Awesome nice balanced map.

Pros: Good time waster, balanced, and fun.

Cons: Repetitive, Massing units, Easy NPC

What's with the ring anyways? I brought it to every island including the the cave, the Stonehenge-ish, the Zergling Nest, and the big tree, but no luck so far. Is there really a secret?
i do like this map a lot
i was a fan of some weird WW3 map someone made in warcraft 3 about 1 year ago
and this seems kinda like it except much more balanced and much bigger

some of the creep spawns are way to close and make early game expansion very difficult and has set me back, it seems like the player spawn at the bottom of the map is the worst until mid game i only saw 1 bear animal to kill for resources and then birds started coming in other bases there are plenty of birds and this spawn has the creep problem as stated above

also maybe you could give the siege units energy, and every attack uses some of the energy and you have to make a artillery depot to restore it and it would also include upgrades for siege units, what if the colossus had an attack similar to that of the gears of war mortar where it would be explosions in a line but with a long cooldown and moderate energy use.
I like the game and I found an incredibly good strategy. I haven't lost the game yet, however I feel like the game is a little too easy for people. I feel like you should implement upgrades that have an increasing cost similar to the Farms.

i.e.
Weapons 1 = 100min 150gas
Weapons 2 = 150min 225gas

something like that, but have many different upgrades for ranged, airships, siege, and melee. Things like health (percentage based), armor, weapon damage, weapon speed. I like the unit specific upgrades but I feel like units should not all have the same upgrade (melee movement, ranged range, air speed). For example one ranged unit could be to receive a damage bonus against X type of units. Another upgrade could be for melee units to have some "berserk" ability, etc.
Simply awesome.

This reminds of DIPLOMACY in starcraft BW, and thus I would suggest some ideas from there and some of my own.

Scouting


There is no way to scout ahead of time. That way, like some have stated, PvP (player vs player) becomes a coin toss. Either you are ready with a massed up army or you are not and then it just becomes A-move win. And you just cant send your units through the neutral armies.

The scouting system I would like to propose falls under a broader research system I will explain below:

Players should have the ability to research the ability to scout. The scout can be a non-attacking, short-lived unit. Remember the zerg changeling? Well a player, after researching basic scouting (or whatever you want to name the first scouting tech) can either train a scout from the garrison or have it manually spawn anywhere he has vision, then the timer starts until it reaches zero and it dies or "returns to base", you get it. This way, in my experience you can gain INVALUABLE reconaissance. Right now, the only recon players have is walling at chokes hoping the walls will slow an advancing army enough to relocate their own army to the fight.

Further scouting research levels can either increase the speed of the scout, its respawn/rate, life, sight range, # of scouts, etc. The scout can also evolve into spies for example, becoming invisible for a certain period to allow safe scouting of other players base. The scout should not trigger aggression from barbarians but other players should able to kills it as to have a means to prevent scouting from other players.

Under the same token, it would be nice to have watch towers/observation posts. The watch tower could be a wall upgradable to a watch tower, for slightly less hp you gain a wider vision radius. The observation post is the same thing but doesn't have to come from a wall.

Defenses

Unfortunately we cannot do the click and drag for walls in SC2 like in age of empires, but we can make gates! Again, you can select a wall and make it transform into a "gate entrance", which would merely be a section of a gate, transformind adjacent walls into gate entrance would widen the gate. It would be nice if the gates could detect from friendly to hostile and either raise or lower accordingly.

An interesting idea its also for each individual wall to be upgradable to a defense tower starting the dark ages, which would be able to garrison 1-2 units for defense. And just like marines in bunkers in ladder, have the unit garrisoned inside additional range and/or other bonuses.

Strength of defenses should be upgradable through research, some options could be: higher armor, hp, sight range for towers, garrison, max, etc.

I am not ready to comment about defenses past medieval ages. Castles turned into star forts, then into miliitary bases, etc. Maybe the towers could remain but the walls would become obsolete.

Research/Tech Point system

I don't mind the current system but an overhaul could dramatically improve the fun factor.
The current tech points, instead of simply leading you through the ages, can be used to customize your civilization.

Tech points gained through research buildings can be used to purchase/unlock new buildings/units/technologies; as well as unlocking new ages. Some research can cost minerals/gas as well with tech points. This unlocks TONS of new gameplay possibilities. You can smartly out tech your opponents or be caught with your pants down versus a lower tier, but well massed up enemy army.

Unit upgrades

Again, I don't mind the current outclassing system, by which I mean, a unit from the next era will be better in all aspects from the one before. But what if we could upgrade the stats of units themselves?

Upgrading units could fall in two different sections: global and specific.

Global upgrades would be researching melee attacks lvl 1 for example, increasing the melee attack of melee units from all ages. Specific upgrades would be upgrading. the attack of an specific unit or time period. You could upgrade units for better range, attack rate, new abilities, hp, etc.

And just so that specific unit upgrades don't become a total waste upon age advancing, you could create a synergy system like the one in "Marine Arena". Let's say you wanted to upgrade the attack of the hoplite by 2, game goes on and you have a pikeman. The pikeman could retain 50% or 25% of the collective upgrades from previous units, or 1 or 0.5 respectively. This allows for demolition fans to squeeze the damage their siege tanks "ahem" trebuchets can deal. A great research upgrade for siege units, trebuchet for example, could be to increase its moving speed, deployment time, or decrease minimal attack range.

Farming/Mining System


I'm not sure if I like the spamming system we have now. What if instead, farms could be 1 small square size add-on to a city like barracks to tech labs. Research buildings could also be attached to cities as as well. This way, you just hold down one hotkey to make as many farms as you can. Also, this would increase the role of cities as a pivotal building other than just research. Not only would you consider of building a city to prevent scaling costs from repeating other research buildings, but also to increase your farming production and who knows what more. I was thinking as well for further ages, for cities to have an add-on like farms to increase the productivity of mines within range. Range and productivity increases could be researched. And again, cities becoming more central to civilization development, could be given the choice to be captures to retain all its benefits or razed to salvage some quick gain resources.

Oil?

This might sound overused from many strategy games but I feel it brings depth to the strategic potential of the game. Mine income is what limit techs in the game. Starting the industrial ages, oil could become available to exploit to unlock flying units and other useful tech, with only a few nodes spread out around the world. Electronic components could be the next limiting factor for future ages, which could be manufactures at the cost of minerals/gas/oil.

Aircraft

Tell me if you like this: Instead of current of current aircraft model, airbases could be made to garrison 5-10 (upgradable) aircraft. With the loading command sending away to the designated rally point. All aircraft could be given the ability to attack while moving like the protoss phoenix, to make aircraft more realistic. All aircraft could also be given energy, which would stand for fuel. Upon reaching zero energy, aircraft cannot take more commands until its garrisoned in an airbase, which would be the only place it could refuel/re-energize. Fuel tanks, depletion rate, aircraft speed, refuel rate, airbase garrison limit, can also be researched through tech points.

Military buildings

Some military buildings are forced into an awkward position. The garrison for example, becomes obsolete after the centurion unit. Just like in civilization games, after a certain age, turn all range/garrison into just garrisons or barracks. Such buildings could produce infantry, modern infantry, parachuters, etc. Unless players really want to keep their archers amidst 6 inch lasers being fired all across. By the way vikings could do great parachuters, after given the land assault mode command, make it unable to go back into the air, hence it has "parachuted"

Interface to accomodate suggestions


In order not to clutter the bottom right pannel of the interface with upgrades and units, you could do what a lot of other customs do: a sort of minimizable menu to access research/upgrade options, intelligence, your mineral/gas/tech points per minute GAIN, etc.


That's it for now. If you need help I would be very willing to assist you implement changes, balance issues, or just testing. Thanks for the great mod! It has SO MUCH potential.
If that first part was about the upgradable buildings thing I mentioned I think you misunderstood. I'm saying rather than having to build a bunch of, for example, hospitals, just have me build one and let me click to upgrade it at the current increasing cost structure and have it function as 1 extra hospital per upgrade. If that still isn't clear go play nexus wars real quick and see how they do the pylon, you'll quickly see what I'm saying.
I was talking about a bug that currently exists in the map.

I understand what you said about building upgrades. Tech buildings consuming large amounts of land is important, though. Upgradeable tech buildings wouldn't do that to the same extent.



The neutral-hostile units guarding the mines are a chore to clear through, and prevent you from scouting your opponents or being aggressive early (unless you spawn on the same green island zone as someone else). This really makes the first half-hour of the game very tedious, and the midgame can become a coinflip unless you play incredibly defensively. Also, I can’t count on both hands how many times I’ve seen noobies ragequit after having neutrals aggro them and start tearing up their base
The hostile mobs invariably cause a scouting problem. A possible solution I had in mind was the addition of some sort of non-combat scouting unit at about age 3 or 4.

Also, newbies getting themselves killed in the first 20 seconds can't really be helped. The units you start with are more than sufficient to just attack-move an enemy camp and win. I commonly lose zero units in such an attack.



Upgrades, etc.
Adding meaningful upgrades is a high priority.



Rond,
Many of your suggestions are very interesting but potentially add a lot of complexity to the game. In particular, the tech progression is intentionally not customizable in order to make it simple for the players; they don't need to remember a tree of building dependencies or choose between different unit types at all. The path the player will take is clearly visible. He can see exactly what he's going to get next, and when he's going to get it.
But some of the other ideas, like the watch tower and gates, I like quite a bit.
Give us a clue for the emerald ring, my friend and I moved it to all locations (all, man, ring cave tree etc) in multiple combinations
Humph, I just spent the past hour going through different combinations of dropping the scv on every island (as far as I could tell, and also in multiple combinations) and I have come to the conclusion that's not how it must be done. I have no idea however what is needed, if anything is actually needed at all. Also I realized that the help menu no longer exists and as such I wonder about Jack's comment (just a curious brain). Lastly, I came upon a crazy idea with the island shaped like a C on the bottom right corner. I noticed that there are tentacle like things sticking out from the water and lightning. When flying over it it looks as though there could be something in the water, however once again it is 3 in the morning and I am quite intrigued so I cannot be sure if that is what the answer is. I want to shoot the overlord housing the scv with the ring over the water to see if that is what must be done. However I really do not want to lose the ring and have just wasted all this time. I am not sure what to do but do not think I will be losing the ring on just a hunch. This could also just be my curious mind running circles in my head and have nothing to do with what the meaning to the ring is.
I also attempted to give the ring to the little white larvae type creature on that center island (the one with what looks like a beehive and creep), but no luck. Also tried the top right island, even though it looks insignificant.
How did you make it so that buildings increase in cost depending on how many the player owned?

I'm working on my own map that requires this feature and I'm clueless.
Hey,

First of all, cool map.
Second, what is up with the emerald ring that "Lord Gustov" drops?

Thanks.
Wonderful map! great work man. This map reminds me of the great maps that were created in wc3. Add more secrets! they make your map worthwhile imo.

Ive found the emerald and ruby ring from the hidden queen but what am i supposed to do with them?!?! emerald gives dmg boost but ruby doesnt give anything o.0

Keep up the work!

edit: the ruby gives the dmg boost, the emerald gives hp regen

btw, although your map is really good, dont be surprised that it's top 10, the current top 10's are way overrated
More comments on balance:

Pikemen

I feel they are too good, like a great tech jump from longswordsman. The pikeman (firebat) can easily destroy in a 1:4 ratio at least any previous age unit. Longbowman are not even an answer either because they are considered light, so pikeman do extra damage not to mention splash.

As I have seen, 4 barbarians beat 1 hoplite, 3 hoplites can beat 1 longswordman, but 1 pikeman can ROFLSTOMP anything. The only answer are siege units which usually come very late.

I believe the pikeman does 30 dmg vs 46 (light), and has 8 armor. That being sad, archers cannot even touch pikeman since they do 7 dmg. I would suggest decreasing the pikeman armor by 3, so archers can at least do 2 dmg per shot.

I also believe either the splash damage should be taken away and/or replace it with a 1-2 melee attack range (since they are pikes after all). I also don't think they should do extra dmg vs light units. Too bad there are no mounted units so that they could deal extra dmg vs them.

Siege Tech Progression

Trebucets

Its very deadly when players can tech to and mass siege tanks. Whoever, it feels they fit more of an artilery/cannon function than just demolishing buildings.

We are already beginning to see trenchlines by the dark ages as soon as trebuchets become available, both sides unable to advance or be ripped apart, IMO shouldnt this happens until somewhere in the industrial age? Currently trebuchets deal 50 dmg + splash and 11 range; which well maneuvered, can be even better than steel cannons (which don't have splash).

I suggest for any of the following:
Trebuchets need more time to deploy (maybe at least 3 times the current time), to create more strategic tension. Also, the splash damage should be either vastly reduced or removed altogether . I feel like their main role is destroying buildings and defenses, not rip units apart (which the cannons and artillery will do). That being said, beef up their vs structure dmg by tons. I would say AT LEAST vs 150 vs structure. And have their normal damage be 40-50 with NO splash.

Ballista

Since you said you are open for suggestions, this is what I think about the ballista.

They were meant to rip through enemy units in a line, as the giant bolt would pierce through anything on the way. Now this reminds me of the hellion!

Can you make it so that the ballista's attack be replaced with that of the hellion? And maybe give it a longer range and slower rate of fire? That way the splash damage is in a line, like ballistas actually did. This way, trebuchets could have their role refitted as defense crushers BUT still have something to deal with massive armies.

Cannon

I would say the current trebuchet unit actually is performing the role of the cannon in every way. Just replace the cannon model instead of the thor to that of the mercenary siege tank (a meanier looking version). I found it funny because steel cannons aka thors deal no splash damage and have shorter range and only do a little more damage than trebuchets. There's some work to be done no? Hehe. The cannon should have considerably more range, do around 80-100 dmg, and obviously, have longer range and better rate of fire than trebuchets.

Range and line of sight of siege units

Like I was saying, we see trench lines as soon as the dark ages because of the crazy effectiveness of the trebuchet. Some players rush to get an airbase and pop an air balloon out to spot for their trebuchets. Now, is this intended? I like it actually just wondering if its the way you meant it to be. If anything, I would exaggerate the actual range vs LOS of siege units.

Trebuchets: R 12 LOS 9
Cannons: R 15 LOS 10
Artillery: R 20 LOS 10

Now since the whole point of this post is to better siege progression, it also makes it more valuable. Siege units should have equal cost in minerals and gas, stating their heavy tech investment. Trebuchets should be 350/350, cannons 700/700, and artillery 1100/1100.

Having said the above, it would making scouting or air dominance crucial, or also offer an alternative to defeating siege lines, instead of always having to rush head on to it. Which brings me to the following

High ground sight and cross land sight

There is almost absolutely nothing you can do to spot high ground, except air balloons which come as late as age 11 when trebuchets are available at 9. Really, it only takes me 2 trebuchets in a well placed, unreachable high ground to have a GG thrown at me. Didn't even need my ground army. You can either implement the scouting system I suggested in a previous post (with watch towers offering plenty LOS) or do the following: Like in starcraft 1, when units on high ground attacked, they became visible for a few seconds to be able to be attacked, but the units on the low ground had an accuracy penalty. I would say a 30% chance to hit for units on the low ground, so at least they have a chance, not to mention ranged units are quite scarce. Even with this proposal, if a player went for all garrison units he is screwed.

Also, a lot of sections of the map can be cross spotted, or you can stand between the rivers in the game if you will, and you can still see across. This creates a heaven for siege units. The way the map is laid out makes it almost impossible to surround an enemy line, there are almost no areas with vast open spaces (contrary to the rocky, mountain ones). Again, siege units are just not that good just because they are, but also because the map layout allows it.

Last miscellaneous note

I notice there is no infantry or modern infantry unit, a staple of all civilization games! Now, implementation could be tricky, since there is already a marine model. Also, would it be considered a ranged unit or melee unit? If a melee unit, it could continue unit progression in garrisons past the centurion since the range is already taken care of. You can try giving the infantry model a marine with the combat shield upgrade model, as to distinguish it from the archer "marine", with no shield.
Would you mind setting up a channel so we can get organized games going?

TELL US WAHT TEH RING DOESSSS!

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum