Zerg does not outproduce other races

General Discussion
I'm tired of hearing this, so im going to break this down the best i can.

*Arguement*
Zerg players outproduce other races

*Counter-arguement*
As a zerg player i know the exact amount of production facilities i need for the units im pumping. Assuming a mineral node is fully loaded i need -

- 2 hatch 2 queen for pure lings
- 2 hatch 1 queen for pure roaches; lings + muta, infestor
- 1 hatch 1 queen for other

If your a terran or toss player and dont know how many production facilities you need to keep your cash count at zero then your doing it wrong and the zerg player is outproducing you because they have the proper production facilites in order and any good toss or terran player will outproduce you as well.

On top of this a zerg player actually has to sacrifice production in order to make supply. Example: 3 rax pumps out 9 marauders in 90 seconds, a hatchery pumps out 11 roaches and 3 overlords in 45 seconds.

*Arguement*
end game they can drop a ultralisk den and make 15 ultralisks

*Counter - arguement*
If i have the money to create so may expensive units at once then im pretty sure i would win the game if i created anything. People say its rediculous that zerg can create those units if they wanted to but in reality 10 ultralisk is 3000 minerals and 2000 gas. If i have that much money saved up and your just sitting on your !@# its kinda your fault. It sounds like i won that game based off of better macro than anything else and it dosnt really matter what i create at that point.

Zerg production is the same as the other races, 3 gateways for toss creates 18 supply worth of units(27 with chronoboost, 4.5 waves of units) every 90seconds and a hatchery + queen creates 22 supply(11 roaches 3 overlords) or 12 supply(12 eggs of lings + 2 overlords).

Another thing that other players dont seem to consider is if im keepng up in military production with you, then im falling behind in econ production. In the example up above 11 roaches vs 9 gateway units is going to be a close fight(depending on micro and tech i could really see that swinging either way). However in the background of this the toss is still making probes and zerg is not. This is also the reason why zerg players need to expand early in order to keep up with their terran / protoss counterparts. We need to be able to make drones and units.

If anyone has anything to add for or against this i would like to hear what you have to say.

Tldr: i just beat a toss player and after putting me on ignore said i only won cuz zerg outproduces other races and me being a base ahead with good scouting had nothing to do with me beating his one stalker immortal push.

Edit-1
*arguement*
10/09/2011 03:38 PMPosted by LetsDancing
I typically see a FFEing protoss have a 60 supply deficit against zerg at a certain point in the game. Usually happens every time.,


*counter-arguement*
Although slightly exxagerated, this is usually attributed to roaches being a cheap on money, expensive on supply unit.

Edit 2
It's just the racial differences. The ability to drone hard is great and all, though it leaves you open to attacks because you sacrifice army; this simple point is the core of TvZ mindset in attempting to force Zerglings early (cannot comment on PvZ, though I've heard that it's not uncommon to have 60 drones to 40 probes at the mid-game).

Larva timings are complicated, but that's what it comes down to. If you keep their economy low (very difficult, but still), you can "out-produce" a Zerg; not in number of units considering how inexpensive Zerglings are, but in actual viability and power.

EDIT - Now that I think about it, Zerg operates very similar to Warp Gates. You can choose to make more Warp Gates (larva), and what units to get when, only the Zerg's economy also relies on these Warp Gates. If you take Day9's newer theory on building a bunch of Warp Gates rather than an army that you may not use at that moment and having two giant warp-ins once they start to move out, the similarities between Zerg and Protoss in particular become much closer.


I quoted this cuz it was one of the first thoughtful posts here.
People think Zerg outproduces the other races because if a non-Zerg player is making army units and workers while a Zerg player is making only workers the Zerg player will have more workers than the non-Zerg player. I know, crazy isn't it?
I'm tired of hearing this, so im going to break this down the best i can.

*Arguement*
Zerg players outproduce other races

*Counter-arguement*
As a zerg player i know the exact amount of production facilities i need for the units im pumping. Assuming a mineral node is fully loaded i need -

- 2 hatch 2 queen for pure lings
- 2 hatch 1 queen for pure roaches; lings + muta, infestor
- 1 hatch 1 queen for other

If your a terran or toss player and dont know how many production facilities you need to keep your cash count at zero then your doing it wrong and the zerg player is outproducing you because they have the proper production facilites in order and any good toss or terran player will outproduce you as well.

On top of this a zerg player actually has to sacrifice production in order to make supply. Example: 3 rax pumps out 9 marauders in 90 seconds, a hatchery pumps out 11 roaches and 3 overlords in 45 seconds.

*Arguement*
end game they can drop a ultralisk den and make 15 ultralisks

*Counter - arguement*
If i have the money to create so may expensive units at once then im pretty sure i would win the game if i created anything. People say its rediculous that zerg can create those units if they wanted to but in reality 10 ultralisk is 3000 minerals and 2000 gas. If i have that much money saved up and your just sitting on your !@# its kinda your fault. It sounds like i won that game based off of better macro than anything else and it dosnt really matter what i create at that point.

Zerg production is the same as the other races, 3 gateways for toss creates 18 supply worth of units(27 with chronoboost, 4.5 waves of units) every 90seconds and a hatchery + queen creates 22 supply(11 roaches 3 overlords) or 12 supply(12 eggs of lings + 2 overlords).

Another thing that other players dont seem to consider is if im keepng up in military production with you, then im falling behind in econ production. In the example up above 11 roaches vs 9 gateway units is going to be a close fight(depending on micro and tech i could really see that swinging either way). However in the background of this the toss is still making probes and zerg is not. This is also the reason why zerg players need to expand early in order to keep up with their terran / protoss counterparts. We need to be able to make drones and units.

If anyone has anything to add for or against this i would like to hear what you have to say.

Tldr: i just beat a toss player and after putting me on ignore said i only won cuz zerg outproduces other races and me being a base ahead with good scouting had nothing to do with me beating his one stalker immortal push.


if a zerg player and a protoss player both play and neither attacks for 15 min, who will have the better economy?

answer: Zerg

why? because zerg OUTPRODUCES OTHER RACES

if a zerg player and a protoss player both play and neither attacks for 15 min, who will have the better economy?

answer: Zerg

why? because zerg OUTPRODUCES OTHER RACES


In 12 minutes, both the Zerg and the Protoss would be maxed out.


If the Protoss player is being stupid and making army units that he never intends to attack with or spending resources on teching that he isn't going to use until 15 minutes, then yes, the Zerg will get ahead.
How can you produce efficiently? With a good economy.

Who is better to get a good quick economy? Zerg.
How does 3 rax build 6 marauders in 45 seconds? Assuming you techlab all of them it would take a full minute.

edit: NVM, you edited.


if a zerg player and a protoss player both play and neither attacks for 15 min, who will have the better economy?

answer: Zerg

why? because zerg OUTPRODUCES OTHER RACES


Correction: Zerg outproduces other races in worker count ONLY. That's a pretty gosh darn big difference than what you're saying. And if you leave Zerg alone for 15 minutes...like he said, you deserve to lose.
10/09/2011 03:16 PMPosted by Dewtrocity
Umm... ya it does...


Thank you for your long and thought out arguement. This community needs more scholars and gentlemen such as yourself.



10/09/2011 03:16 PMPosted by Steric
People think Zerg outproduces the other races because if a non-Zerg player is making army units and workers while a Zerg player is making only workers the Zerg player will have more workers than the non-Zerg player. I know, crazy isn't it?


Yea, wierd that people are blown away by the thought of me spendng all my money in a long run investment...then i beat them in the long run...




if a zerg player and a protoss player both play and neither attacks for 15 min, who will have the better economy?

answer: Zerg

why? because zerg OUTPRODUCES OTHER RACES


plenty of others have already commented on this
How does 3 rax build 6 marauders in 45 seconds? Assuming you techlab all of them it would take a full minute.

edit: NVM, you edited.


Yes my apologies i saw the typo immediatly after posting.
Zerg is supposed to outproduce other two, one of their strengths, mass numbers LATE game with weak units, useless thread.
10/09/2011 03:35 PMPosted by Placebo
Zerg is supposed to outproduce other two, one of their strengths, mass numbers LATE game with weak units, useless thread.


Exept we dont outproduce them...i think you missed the point of this thread entirely.


if a zerg player and a protoss player both play and neither attacks for 15 min, who will have the better economy?

answer: Zerg

why? because zerg OUTPRODUCES OTHER RACES


Correction: Zerg outproduces other races in worker count ONLY. That's a pretty gosh darn big difference than what you're saying. And if you leave Zerg alone for 15 minutes...like he said, you deserve to lose.


Yes, and why do you deserve to lose? Because they outproduce the other races and can produce WAY faster armies than their TP counterparts can if left un harassed because all of their units come from larvae.
10/09/2011 03:38 PMPosted by LetsDancing
I typically see a FFEing protoss have a 60 supply deficit against zerg at a certain point in the game. Usually happens every time.,


FFE is done specifically in order to keep up with zerg production, otherwise you get blown away in worker count and therefore don't stand a chance.
Ah gotcha, just skimmed through it. But yes, reactors and warpgates have made it so that one of the few strengths zerg is supposed to have doesnt exist anymore.
That's why a Zerg can be at 190 when a Terran or Toss is only between 110 and 140, depending on how they're teching?

Too long, won't read, stupid topic
Yes, and why do you deserve to lose? Because they outproduce the other races and can produce WAY faster armies than their TP counterparts can if left un harassed because all of their units come from larvae.[/quote]

Zerg dosnt outproduce units. We outproduce workers and not even by a large margin vs toss. The fact is every zerg on this forum has lost games because they put too much larvae into workers and not enough into military to defend. This decision making is to a much lesser extent seen in chrono boost and not at all in mules.

Zerg makes 6 workers every 45 seconds if they dedicate all but 1 larvae for an overlord. Toss makes 4 workers and is also making military in that time.



10/09/2011 03:38 PMPosted by LetsDancing
I typically see a FFEing protoss have a 60 supply deficit against zerg at a certain point in the game. Usually happens every time.,


Although slightly exxagerated, this is usually attributed to roaches being a cheap on money, expensive on supply unit.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum