Units that nullify micro in HotS

General Discussion
I know this has been talked about in length already, but I am hoping blizzard takes a look at these abilities come Heart of the Swarm. More specifically I am talking about Conc. Shell, Fungal and force field.

I don't think that the abilities are broken or overpowered. Personally I just find them frustrating and feel like they take away more from game play than they add(micro).

I understand that FF is vital to Protoss survival in the early game. In the mid to late game though it is really annoying to have a circle around your units, or your ramp blocked endlessly. Not sure what could be done here to alleviate the micro nullification.

For fungal I think it would be interesting to have a mechanic where it snares(maybe immobilize) if cast on the creep(plus damage), but only does damage when cast off creep. Would encourage creep spread and give a bigger risk to pushing to quickly onto creep.

Finally Conc. Shell, not a lot to say about it, change it remove it whatever. I just don't like it.

Would like to hear others opinions on these skills and ideas to rework them so they don't eliminate micro. That or tell me I am baddie and they should stay the same in HotS.
As a zerg player I'm in favor of shorter timing on FF (10 or 12 secs) and no root on fungal, and instead a massive slow 50-60%, as for conc shell, I would say just delay it a bit (longer research time) in the early game and make it an actual decision by maybe raising its price a lil.
10/24/2011 02:22 PMPosted by inSanity
Fungle
10/24/2011 02:28 PMPosted by xZJATx
As a zerg player I'm in favor of shorter timing on FF (10 or 12 secs) and no root on fungal, and instead a massive slow 50-60%, as for conc shell, I would say just delay it a bit (longer research time) in the early game and make it an actual decision by maybe raising its price a lil.


Horrible idea
Take away the damage from fungal and give it a 10 second root, if you use it just for damage your bad sorry.

As for the Op you fail aswell.
These do not eliminate micro, just becasue they dont require to much micro doesnt mean they require none.
Fails :D
Fungal being a damaging ensnare wouldn't be terrible.
how does forcefield require less micro? its all about changing the terrain and dividing ur enemies it is extremely micro intensive to use the spell correctly. i would agree that simply ramp blocking is a little boring for its usage though

fungle i would agree that it removes some micro need but considering zerg micro requirments i think its a welcome reduction allowing allocation to more important places.

conc shell well is it annoying .... sometimes does it require less micro to use, not really sure i guess if u compare it to not having conc but then that defeats the point of the marauder. i dont see enough of a problem with this to change any of these.
As for the Op you fail aswell.
These do not eliminate micro, just becasue they dont require to much micro doesnt mean they require none.
Fails :D
Um, no, sorry. You fail. He wasn't referring to their USE not requiring micro as you so imply, he was saying that they DENY micro for their opponent.

Edit: Why am I the only person in this thread that realized the spells he mentioned were for denial of micro and not talking about the micro required for using them?
As for the Op you fail aswell.
These do not eliminate micro, just becasue they dont require to much micro doesnt mean they require none.
Fails :D
Um, no, sorry. You fail. He wasn't referring to their USE not requiring micro as you so imply, he was saying that they DENY micro for their opponent.

Edit: Why am I the only person in this thread that realized the spells he mentioned were for denial of micro and not talking about the micro required for using them?


ok so they deny micro, why is that a bad mechanic? micro is considered a rescource and we have tons of mechanics to deny resources why not ones that deny micro. i dont see how this is a bad thing.
What I don't understand yet is how Zerg is supposed to swarm their opponent, yet when we have more units, Forcefield just nullifies that and Protoss can still win a battle.

WTB a Forcefield nerf, or at least a re-use.

It sucks when you completely out-macro your opponent and because Forcefield you can't get into their base going up a ramp, or you can't actually engage an army 2x smaller than your own.
since when is micro considered a resource? denial of micro is a denial of APM that directly impacts the battle, and if we think that APM is any reflection of skill, then your denying a player the ability to use their skill during battle. I think SC should be more about using and promoting skillful play, not trying to remove it
Nerf Forcefield + massive buff to gateway units + nerf to warp gate = total rework of Protoss race to behave in a less unique fashion

This is going to take way too much work to ever implement. I don't see it ever happening because of this and also because forcefields open up a lot of creative gameplay options for Protoss and good forcefield use is one of the most visible things that separates bad Protoss players from good Protoss players. Also, of the spells/abilities listed, forcefield is the only one that requires any amount of skill to use. Yeah sure forcefielding a ramp isn't tough but there's some seriously neat stuff that you can do with that spell and if you forcefield badly you'll end up hurting yourself more than your opponent. I'm not saying Protoss requires more skill than Zerg or Terran, I'm just saying that unlike pretty well other spell in the game, you actually have to think about how you want to use it.

I do like OP's idea though of fungLE (:P) behaving differently when on/off creep. If it slowed off creep and snared on creep that'd add more skill to it.
10/24/2011 02:22 PMPosted by inSanity
I don't think that the abilities are broken or overpowered. Personally I just find them frustrating and feel like they take away more from game play than they add(micro).


It's true that these spells can limit the ability of one player to micro (in the sense that they limit movement), but this kind of an argument ignores the micro they also add to the game. FG and forcefield both take a significant amount of micro control to use well. Reacting to them can also require micro, in the sense that splitting up and or spreading out your units can help deal with fungal growth, and careful positioning can help mitigate the effects of forcefield.

I also think it's interesting to look at the kind of complaints made about fungal growth when considering this question: after the patch that made FG quite overpowered a lot of people claimed that they weren't complaining about the damage, they were complaining about the stun. But at release, when the ability was certainly useful, but it wasn't overpowered, the stun lasted for a whopping 8 seconds; twice as long as the duration was after the patch, and people never complained about it. It seems to me that the damage, and not the stun, was what people were really complaining about. The stun was only overpowered in the sense that it allowed players to chain the absurdly high aoe dps on the same cluster of units. So the problem was never that it "prevented" micro.
10/24/2011 02:22 PMPosted by inSanity
I understand that FF is vital to Protoss survival in the early game. In the mid to late game though it is really annoying to have a circle around your units, or your ramp blocked endlessly. Not sure what could be done here to alleviate the micro nullification


We've been asking for FF removed in favor of T1 that is actually worth something for awhile now.

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