Would this 4 changes break terran?

General Discussion
or actually force them to micro and vary builds.

-Medivac required tech lab and healing requires upgrade (SC1 drop ships were the same price as the medivac and actually required an attachment to build.)

-EMP switched to Raven but EMP buffed; give ghosts lockdown but it requires research (this ability is too early and too cheap for its price)

-Stimpack has a 10 seconds cooldown after use (blink has a cooldown and so does charge; it wont affect performance but will actually make terrans play smart and be wary of ambushes.)

-Give marines a range upgrade accessible from the engineering bay or requires factory but nerf marine range by 1 (will make terran go early mech or air without going 1/1/1 all in)


If not explain why it won't work and the flaws with this changes. This is your chance to say something smart terrans.
Too anyone that says game is perfectly balanced:

http://i.imgur.com/JW38u.png
don't try to make this game into a BW with better graphics. most of us have already had our share of BW for 30 years now(me specifically 10 years)
don't try to make this game into a BW with better graphics. most of us have already had our share of BW for 30 years now(me specifically 10 years)


Just until HoTs
11/09/2011 08:33 PMPosted by Draken
-Medivac required tech lab and healing requires upgrade (SC1 drop ships were the same price as the medivac and actually required an attachment to build.)


No.


11/09/2011 08:33 PMPosted by Draken
-EMP switched to Raven but EMP buffed; give ghosts lockdown but it requires research (this ability is too early and too cheap for its price)


Yes.



11/09/2011 08:33 PMPosted by Draken
-Stimpack has a 10 seconds cooldown after use (blink has a cooldown and so does charge; it wont affect performance but will actually make terrans play smart and be wary of ambushes.)


ya why not its a buff



11/09/2011 08:33 PMPosted by Draken
-Give marines a range upgrade accessible from the engineering bay or requires factory but nerf marine range by 1 (will make terran go early mech or air without going 1/1/1 all in)



No.



Too anyone that says game is perfectly balanced:

http://i.imgur.com/JW38u.png


it is
Sadly this thread and many other constructive will get buried
This thread isn't constructive.


So is your argument against it...
oh wait
These changes wouldn't break Terran, but I don't see how they're really necessary.

1) Medivacs only serve to counteract the negative effects of Stimpack and to top units off after a battle. It's not really feasiable to get enough Medivacs to significantly decrease the amount of DPS a MMM ball takes, during an engagement, especially v.s. Collossi and Chargelots. Also, each race has a regenerative ability- Protoss shields, Zerg regeneration, Terran Medivac/Repair.

2) Not sure what lockdown is, but Ghosts having EMP makes sense. Giving it to the Raven forces a tech path, that's not something that's fair at all (hello Observer.) Anyway, there are some issues with EMP, but giving it to the unit that can also drop a Point Defense Drone to keep your Stalkers from shooting it down first ain't a great idea. The recent radius nerf seems to be an adequate way to address to the problems, to me.

3) Marines are the base unit of the Terran army, and like other base units of other races, they have upgrades that increase their efficiency (Zealot Charge, Stalker Blink, Roach/Ling Speed, Marauder Conc. Shell, Marine Combat Shield). Your suggestion would make Marines the only T1 unit that needs an upgrade to get back to standard efficiency. Marines are already out-ranged by Stalkers and Void Rays, and both of those units can abuse them early game. Late game, Colossus roast them.

Obviously the game isn't perfectly balanced. Perhaps you could explain more thoroughly what balance issues your changes address?
11/09/2011 08:33 PMPosted by Draken
give ghosts lockdown but it requires research


Oh god no. With casters so much easier to use in SC2 than BW... you'd never want another heavy mechanical unit when a 2-supply Ghost can lock it out of the fight for long enough to win the game.
These changes wouldn't break Terran, but I don't see how they're really necessary.

1) Medivacs only serve to counteract the negative effects of Stimpack and to top units off after a battle. It's not really feasiable to get enough Medivacs to significantly decrease the amount of DPS a MMM ball takes, during an engagement, especially v.s. Collossi and Chargelots. Also, each race has a regenerative ability- Protoss shields, Zerg regeneration, Terran Medivac/Repair.

2) Not sure what lockdown is, but Ghosts having EMP makes sense. Giving it to the Raven forces a tech path, that's not something that's fair at all (hello Observer.) Anyway, there are some issues with EMP, but giving it to the unit that can also drop a Point Defense Drone to keep your Stalkers from shooting it down first ain't a great idea. The recent radius nerf seems to be an adequate way to address to the problems, to me.

3) Marines are the base unit of the Terran army, and like other base units of other races, they have upgrades that increase their efficiency (Zealot Charge, Stalker Blink, Roach/Ling Speed, Marauder Conc. Shell, Marine Combat Shield). Your suggestion would make Marines the only T1 unit that needs an upgrade to get back to standard efficiency. Marines are already out-ranged by Stalkers and Void Rays, and both of those units can abuse them early game. Late game, Colossus roast them.

Obviously the game isn't perfectly balanced. Perhaps you could explain more thoroughly what balance issues your changes address?


1) there's a big difference between passive regeneration that's slow and can only happen out of combat, and in-combat healing that out-heals the dps of zerglings, zealots and even ultralisks once you add armor upgrades to your marauders.
2)He's basing it off of the fact that emp was on the science vessel in BW, and lockdown was the ghost's ability that temporarily disabled mechanical units. I like it this way better, anyway.
3) In BW, the marine only had 4 range by default and was upgraded to have 5. Now that upgrade has been replaced by combat shield (which, by the way, BW marines = 40 hp, SC2 marine 45 + 10 from combat shield). Just a little food for thought - marines had their health, range, move speed, and DPS all buffed in SC2, while lings and zealots are actually worse than their BW versions.

Just clearing up his thought process on these. Though SC2 is different from BW, I can't help but feel like zerg and toss got mixed nerfs and buffs from BW to SC2, while terran got nothing but buffs.
Too anyone that says game is perfectly balanced:

http://i.imgur.com/JW38u.png


It's definitely not perfectly balanced, but I don't like this chart at all.

Re draw it with the range as 0-100 and you'll see how the differences is so exaggerated in the current chart.
These changes wouldn't break Terran, but I don't see how they're really necessary.

1) Medivacs only serve to counteract the negative effects of Stimpack and to top units off after a battle. It's not really feasiable to get enough Medivacs to significantly decrease the amount of DPS a MMM ball takes, during an engagement, especially v.s. Collossi and Chargelots. Also, each race has a regenerative ability- Protoss shields, Zerg regeneration, Terran Medivac/Repair.

2) Not sure what lockdown is, but Ghosts having EMP makes sense. Giving it to the Raven forces a tech path, that's not something that's fair at all (hello Observer.) Anyway, there are some issues with EMP, but giving it to the unit that can also drop a Point Defense Drone to keep your Stalkers from shooting it down first ain't a great idea. The recent radius nerf seems to be an adequate way to address to the problems, to me.

3) Marines are the base unit of the Terran army, and like other base units of other races, they have upgrades that increase their efficiency (Zealot Charge, Stalker Blink, Roach/Ling Speed, Marauder Conc. Shell, Marine Combat Shield). Your suggestion would make Marines the only T1 unit that needs an upgrade to get back to standard efficiency. Marines are already out-ranged by Stalkers and Void Rays, and both of those units can abuse them early game. Late game, Colossus roast them.

Obviously the game isn't perfectly balanced. Perhaps you could explain more thoroughly what balance issues your changes address?


1) Yes; but the regenerative abilities of both zerg and protoss do not work or is useful in the engagement itself (thus with medivacs we see 3 marauders easily take on 6 stalkers with stim). While the medivacs aren't as useful if you take a storm in the face (which rarely happens); it make all the other protoss units as simple meatshields. This only happens when a critical amount of medivacs is reached.

2) Stim is too low on the tech tree; however the real problem is that the ghosts is cheap and an offensive unit. The radius decrease is not a solution because the terran can simply spam more EMP. This change would make EMP while pdd's can easily be dealt with templars. The real solution is that terran would have to decide between EMP research or Healing research (it should be an expensive upgrade 200/200); thus requires a lot more scouting.

3) Stalkers outrange marines however its not effective because stalkers have a firing animation thus marines are almost always able to land a hit. The reduce range would allow stalkers to actually kite marines. Remember that terran tier 1 is a lot better than protoss mediocre tier 1 units. The stimpack change makes marauders very vulnerable against zealot stalker if they stim on the wrong momemt.

Bad stim should have consequences; such the consequences we suffer if we do a bad blink.
WHy in the world would you give ravens ANOTHER spell? Ravens are good enough as is, just most terrans are too stupid to even know that/
Too anyone that says game is perfectly balanced:

http://i.imgur.com/JW38u.png


It's definitely not perfectly balanced, but I don't like this chart at all.

Re draw it with the range as 0-100 and you'll see how the differences is so exaggerated in the current chart.


That would be pointless. Stats ALWAYS draws charts like the one linked. If you are too stupid to actually realise what it means, then you have issues other than SC2 balance.
This isn't broodwar, in broodwar terran had medics, in broodwar dragoons had inferior AI to ultralisks. Ravens having EMP would be sillyness, it would make ghosts worthless, and mech is the way of HoTS anyways.

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