DRG vs MC

General Discussion


I thought HerO vs Ret was a macro game.


hero is straight up better than ret to a huge degree. not really relevant.


Just because it's an example that disproves your overgeneralized statement doesn't mean it's irrelevant.
11/20/2011 09:15 AMPosted by void
ya air vs zerg is kinda lame cause no matter how much damagae you do it like doesnt even matter queens and spore just cost mins and you are throwing gas at them


You shouldn't be losing units ;)
11/20/2011 09:51 AMPosted by SOMETHING
fighting a zerg army with only blink stalkers with NO sentries against ling and roaches and infestors, it was a army comp win


You are wrong.
at the beginning, it's stalker, zealot sentries against ling/roach/spine

After that, it's pure roach + infestor against blink stalker/ a few zealot

Ling is not out until the battle clearly over (with DRG having more roaches + infestor than stalker)

Your point is in valid.
11/20/2011 09:51 AMPosted by SOMETHING


DRG prove you wrong.
He just used infestor to fend off the push EASILY



fighting a zerg army with only blink stalkers with NO sentries against ling and roaches and infestors, it was a army comp win


Scumbag "Protoss OP" poster:

Watches MC lose a game where he had godlike FFs from 14 Sentries.

Claims on forums MC lost because he didn't have Sentries.


I thought HerO vs Ret was a macro game.


hero is straight up better than ret to a huge degree. not really relevant.


DRG had infestors, burrow and tunneling claws. He was fighting on creep. He had 3 bases.

MC had 2 bases, a warp prism and blink stalkers.

Not really indication of imbalance.


DRG had infestors, burrow and tunneling claws. He was fighting on creep. He had 3 bases.

MC had 2 bases, a warp prism and blink stalkers.

Not really indication of imbalance.


i didn't say the game itself was an indication of imbalance. pvz is imbalanced because of the ease of how zerg can respond to any protoss strategy. if you go into a macro game, you should pretty much never lose against a protoss because your units are simply stronger and there are very obvious hard counters and timings to exploit. that's why pretty much every even skill pvz (i.e. not some garbage foreigner like ret against arguably the best pvz player in hero) comes down to the protoss doing a 1 or 2 base timing attack. if the zerg plays smart and just macros up, you pretty much can't win because of how hard it is to take a third.

tl;dr : pvz favours z right now.


Ease of response? Maybe a month ago when Protoss were still trying to deathball their way to victory.

Lately, the warp prism has been seeing a lot more use. You might say it's gimmicky, but it's been working out for a lot of pro's. Minigun's been doing on his stream, once vs IdrA, and same with vileState. WhiteRa and HerO have integrated warp prism harass into their standard play.

The stargate is also seeing a resurgence. The first game of DRG vs MC, MC had forced a ton of hydras. Had MC followed up with a standard Colossi response, the game would have ended very differently.

You say a Zerg should never lose a macro game against a Protoss, and yet you argue that a Mothership is needed to compete against a maxed out macro zerg.

It seems to me that Protoss can play a macro game just fine. They just can't play it the same way they've always done it.

You can of course theorycraft about how each of these strategies can/will get hardcountered by a Zerg, but that's just theorycraft. I'm sure somebody more knowledgable than me can come up with a hardcounter to any Zerg strategy you care to name.



Ease of response? Maybe a month ago when Protoss were still trying to deathball their way to victory.

Lately, the warp prism has been seeing a lot more use. You might say it's gimmicky, but it's been working out for a lot of pro's. Minigun's been doing on his stream, once vs IdrA, and same with vileState. WhiteRa and HerO have integrated warp prism harass into their standard play.

The stargate is also seeing a resurgence. The first game of DRG vs MC, MC had forced a ton of hydras. Had MC followed up with a standard Colossi response, the game would have ended very differently.

You say a Zerg should never lose a macro game against a Protoss, and yet you argue that a Mothership is needed to compete against a maxed out macro zerg.

It seems to me that Protoss can play a macro game just fine. They just can't play it the same way they've always done it.

You can of course theorycraft about how each of these strategies can/will get hardcountered by a Zerg, but that's just theorycraft. I'm sure somebody more knowledgable than me can come up with a hardcounter to any Zerg strategy you care to name.


it amuses me that every protoss composition is a deathball unless it's air.


It amuses me that it's only recently occurred to some Protoss that they can have a deathball while having warp prisms harass multiple bases.

And then of course it still eludes some.


It amuses me that it's only recently occurred to some Protoss that they can have a deathball while having warp prisms harass multiple bases.

And then of course it still eludes some.


you act like there isn't a proper and easy response to this from zerg.


Theorycraft more.

Protoss drops and warp-ins are no less easier to handle than a Terran's in a TvZ. You don't even have to carry your units in your warp prism. You don't run the risk of having your prism picked off with all your units inside. Coupled with the speed upgrade, you have a very, very mobile harass unit. In fact, I saw Sheth chase a warp prism from one side of the map to the other just to pick it off because it's that fast.



Theorycraft more.

Protoss drops and warp-ins are no less easier to handle than a Terran's in a TvZ. You don't even have to carry your units in your warp prism. You don't run the risk of having your prism picked off with all your units inside. Coupled with the speed upgrade, you have a very, very mobile harass unit. In fact, I saw Sheth chase a warp prism from one side of the map to the other just to pick it off because it's that fast.


i actually play pvz at a higher level than you, so idk why you're telling me to 'theorycraft more.'


I'm not telling you what I do. I'm telling you what the pro's have recently been doing. And I'm telling you that it's been working.

In response, you're telling me "Well, if the Zerg did this, then they could have won. If the Zerg hadn't done this, they would have won." Which is nothing more than theorycraft.

Pretty sure they play PvZ at a higher level than you, so I don't know why you're implicitly telling them they don't know how to play the game.



I'm not telling you what I do. I'm telling you what the pro's have recently been doing. And I'm telling you that it's been working.

In response, you're telling me "Well, if the Zerg did this, then they could have won. If the Zerg hadn't done this, they would have won." Which is nothing more than theorycraft.

Pretty sure they play PvZ at a higher level than you, so I don't know why you're implicitly telling them they don't know how to play the game.


You have little to no idea what you're talking about.

Just saying.


So I'm relaying back to you what Minigun and State has done to IdrA. What HerO did to Ret. What MC did to IdrA. What Naniwa did to NesTea. There was another Korean protoss last MLG who did similar harass to HuK. Those are facts and observations.

Now how about instead of another ad hominem, you search the crevasses of your mind and piece together a counter-argument and tell me why warp prism harass is not a viable strategy in the Protoss arsenal.

And I mean that wholeheartedly. The warp prism has become a staple unit in a lot of recent games, and if you're going to tell me why it's a bad idea, I really want to know why.



So I'm relaying back to you what Minigun and State has done to IdrA. What HerO did to Ret. What MC did to IdrA. What Naniwa did to NesTea. There was another Korean protoss last MLG who did similar harass to HuK. Those are facts and observations.

Now you tell me your argument.


but your observations come with the caveat that the zerg is either drastically worse than his opponent or playing like garbage. allow me to dismiss your examples as follows:

idra's ZvP is by FAR his weakest matchup and it ALWAYS has been, since the days of beta. using him as an example of good ZvP play is laughable. the Nestea vs Naniwa games were absolutely pathetic by both players. Nestea was far, far ahead in all of the games and decided to throw away each one of them. He's not played well all tournament. he just lost to HAYPRO of all people.

Ret vs HerO isn't even worth discussing. Ret is possibly the greediest Zerg there is and HerO has the best PvZ in the world. Ret is nowhere NEAR korean tier Zerg. Just get out. there's a reason DRG made MC look like a retard, and why he'll do the same thing to any protoss he plays. he just plays standard and reacts properly to all-ins.


IdrA's ZvP is 0.2% lower than his ZvT. Best matchup is ZvZ. Regardless, losing to Minigun and State who both used the same strategy on him?

HerO's best matchup is PvP, with over 70%. PvZ and PvT is equal.

Ret's best matchup is ZvZ, coming in second with ZvP.

MC made himself look like a retard floating 1000+ minerals at the end.


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