Balance achieved? (2)

General Discussion
MLG finals was PvZ, Z won.
DH finals was PvT, P won.
GSl finals is TvZ...

The last 3 major tournaments had all 3 possible match ups in the finals.

How can it get more balanced?
It can get more balanced by retaining racial balance while improving the number of strategic options each race has-- mech in TvP, viable carriers, more useable battlecruisers, and... huh-- more zerg units, a slightly more mobile hydralisk, I guess.

Also, they'll probably want to figure out something else for protoss and revert the Ground Weapons cost change. It's actually the literal definition of a bandaid 'fix'. Armor and shields is fine, though-- armor had no business being 100/100 to start, and shields had no business being as much as it was.
Maybe you are correct, but just note that these are just 3 tournaments compared to all the other tournaments with Terran coming out on top.

Definitely getting close, I can't deny that.


Why do you bring up the past? Its not like there hasnt been a patch to nerf Terran. Why dont you think about it now? Its like saying the Zerg is OP because INFESTORS were OP.


Why do you bring up the past? Its not like there hasnt been a patch to nerf Terran. Why dont you think about it now? Its like saying the Zerg is OP because INFESTORS were OP.


Why do I repeat the past? Because in the general idea of statistics, three isn't enough, at least as far as Starcraft balance is concerned.

Tell me if you had 50 Starcraft games, and 5 Starcraft games, and you recorded a separate win/loss ratio for each group of games, which is closer to measuring the win/loss ratio?

Not only that, we can learn from history.

I swear, everything I say, no matter what I say, people have to argue about it.


However, his point is balanced. The last patch really seems to have fixed PvT with out screwing PvZ.

Since balance is discussed under the current patch, it should only involve the current patch. A larger dataset would be nice, but we can only work with what we have.
Maybe you are correct, but just note that these are just 3 tournaments compared to all the other tournaments with Terran coming out on top.

Definitely getting close, I can't deny that.


There aren't other tournaments with terran coming out on top. Terrans have been getting annihilated in foreign events for months.
Maybe you are correct, but just note that these are just 3 tournaments compared to all the other tournaments with Terran coming out on top.

Definitely getting close, I can't deny that.


There aren't other tournaments with terran coming out on top. Terrans have been getting annihilated in foreign events for months.


http://www.gomtv.net/records/index.gom?searchType=3&race=P&vsrace=T&season=2011&leaguetype=20&leagueid=24377&gamever=0&mapid=0

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_Global_StarCraft_II_League_October/Code_S

So yeah... you're wrong. Couldn't be more wrong. Should !@#$ until you learn wtf you are saying.


There aren't other tournaments with terran coming out on top. Terrans have been getting annihilated in foreign events for months.


http://www.gomtv.net/records/index.gom?searchType=3&race=P&vsrace=T&season=2011&leaguetype=20&leagueid=24377&gamever=0&mapid=0

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_Global_StarCraft_II_League_October/Code_S

So yeah... you're wrong. Couldn't be more wrong. Should !@#$ until you learn wtf you are saying.


Good job linking the GSL. He said foreign tournaments. And the foreign tournaments that are won by Terrans are generally won by the same Korean terrans winning at GSL, that came over for a little visit. Should !@#$ until you learn wtf you are saying.
11/28/2011 06:17 AMPosted by PandaGAF
blizzcon.


Yeah, I wouldn't bring that up as an example. Nestea won that and threw the game.
blizzcon.


Yeah, I wouldn't bring that up as an example. Nestea won that and threw the game.


Remember the GSL finals that were played at Blizzcon?

Terran lost that too. It also won it! Same with the semi-finals! If only Terran could get above 50% in TvT.
Remember the GSL finals that were played at Blizzcon?

Terran lost that too. It also won it! Same with the semi-finals! If only Terran could get above 50% in TvT.


I'm not seeing your point, here.

Remember MLG Orlando? Protoss lost that too. They also won it! If only Protoss could get above 50% in PvP.
Remember the GSL finals that were played at Blizzcon?

Terran lost that too. It also won it! Same with the semi-finals! If only Terran could get above 50% in TvT.


I'm not seeing your point, here.

Remember MLG Orlando? Protoss lost that too. They also won it! If only Protoss could get above 50% in PvP.


Point is that every race is winning = balanced. Mirror matches happen in balanced games. They just aren't the same mirror every time.
The real question is does every major unit have micro skill gaps? Marines obviously have some, blink stalkers have some, but some would argue most of the T3 units have no micro use.

Also, does each matchup have equal or close to equal capacities per timing? Early, mid, late - game?

Is each unit dynamically built for a purpose but useful in other regards? Does each unit serve it's role? Is each unit fun? Does each unit have a meta-counter? Can that counter be produced quickly or cheaply comparatively?

These are real balance questions. W/L will show 50% and these questions can remain completely unanswered, this is why I hate statistics to some degree.
a sample size of 3 is not enough to draw conclusions from
11/28/2011 07:19 AMPosted by RBalloonMan
a sample size of 3 is not enough to draw conclusions from


In the complete balance sense this is true. Although we can conclude that it is possible for all races to reach the finals of a tournament, for what that's worth. :)
11/28/2011 07:19 AMPosted by RBalloonMan
a sample size of 3 is not enough to draw conclusions from

False, it is not a sample size of 3, it is a sample size of all the individual games up to the finals to produce the final size of "3."

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