Why Ravens Suck in TvP

General Discussion
-Costs 100min, 200 gas, 2 supply
-60 Second Build Time (Ties up starport, requires tech lab, Terran doesn't have Chronoboost)
-A single Feedback makes it useless other than being a very expensive detector.
-Has 3 very expensive researches (150/150 110sec each research)
-PDD can also be feedbacked, and since it spawns with high energy and low HP it will be isntantly destroyed.

This is the reason why:
-Terran uses scans more often than Ravens for detection
-Ravens are useless once P gets HT.
Why ravens rock:

Only 200 gas and shuts down all stalkers for a significant period of time.
Can harass and add direct military power at only the cost of energy.
Has a powerful aoe attack.
Mobile detection.

Saying ravens are useless is like saying ghosts are useless because I can feed back them. Feed back takes energy and micro. If I can feed back your raven, odds are you didn't micro it correctly.


I get annoyed by ignorant terrans complaining about chronoboost. Protoss unit build and research times have been adjusted for chrono boost. With out chronoboost, protoss is significantly slower than the other races. Chronoboost simply allows protoss to "focus" production a bit more. It doesn't allow us to produce more over all but to sacrifice production in one area (ie, less units) in exchange for another (ie, faster upgrades).

I'd change chrono for orbital abilities ANY DAY.
Saying ravens are useless is like saying ghosts are useless because I can feed back them. Feed back takes energy and micro. If I can feed back your raven, odds are you didn't micro it correctly.


So does this mean you guys will stop saying high templar are useless because they can be EMPed?
12/01/2011 09:33 AMPosted by Astrai
When EMP doesn't outrange Feedback by a significant amount, and when they're both either single target, or both AoE, sure.


So ravens can stay out of range of feedback(more range than any raven ability) and be totally awesome, but high templar can't stay out of EMP range and be any use at all.

And you guys say terrans don't make sense.
Day9 has stated that just because a certain unit did not work in a game, you shouldn't write it off. In fact, what you should try is using a different number. Try more than one raven. Try different combinations. I'm not sure the raven is the answer to using mmm against collos, templar, chargelot. It does, however, work wonders with banshees.

I recognize you're masters OP and I respect that, but I think you should try some different stuff. You certainly can't argue in a couple sentences a point like this so try again.
Next they are going to say Medvac are not that great in TvP Because things can die.

Terrans dont even know how their own units work. They should try to learn that first before commenting on how they suck.
Yes, I'm aware of how PDD works. You could also have mentioned it goes up to 9 range with the upgrade.

I was simply trying to clarify if you believed high templar were still worthless. Apparently you do, I figured you might be better off now. Oh well.



So ravens can stay out of range of feedback(more range than any raven ability) and be totally awesome, but high templar can't stay out of EMP range and be any use at all.

And you guys say terrans don't make sense.


Wow, another Terran who doesn't know how his units work. Impressive.

P.D.D. has a radius of 8. Any shot which passes within this radius, which the P.D.D. can block, will be blocked by it. It doesn't matter if it originated outside the radius, or targets something outside the radius.

Which means, with a range of 2 on the P.D.D, the Raven can stay at a distance of up to 10 behind the Terran forces and still lay down a P.D.D. to cover them from Stalker fire, essentially nullifying the Stalkers with the Protoss forces while the P.D.D.s last, and since Protoss has to rely fairly heavily on Stalkers for ranged damage this reduces the strength of the Protoss forces fairly heavily.

With EMP also outranging Feedback, this also allows HTs to be hit with EMP while the Ravens are safely back, then once the HTs are mostly rendered without energy, the Ravens can move forward and do their thing.

Terran players really need to learn how their own units outside of Bio work.


Yeah, that's if you fight with stalkers at melee range or don't know how to blink/take 2 steps back. Also forgot to mention that you can feedback PDD which would instantly kill it.
you can spend gas on units, terran doesn't have to be heavily mineral based. the spells are worth the cost. having a detector allows you to move and spot observers effectively. you can nullify some stalker attacks with the PDD, making it safer. HSS is effective against balled up units, use it wisely. combined with ghost you can do pretty good AoE damage.

you can also go banshees, viking, raven and be greatly effective with stealth and destroying obs in the process. sky terran may become the new thing, but it requires more gas which terran apparently never have enough of.

Yeah, that's if you fight with stalkers at melee range or don't know how to blink/take 2 steps back.


Are we going to have to bring the puppets out, it dosent matter where are the stalker IF YOUR army is within the radius of the pdd it will be protected, the position of the stalker are irrelevant. also,

if the pdd is NOT over your army, then the position of the stalker matter, if the stalker are within the range of the pdd, the stalker with get their attack shut down even if what they shoot at are outside the radius of the pdd
Holy revisionist history, Batman.

I never said High Templar are worthless.


12/01/2011 09:33 AMPosted by Astrai


So does this mean you guys will stop saying high templar are useless because they can be EMPed?


When EMP doesn't outrange Feedback by a significant amount, and when they're both either single target, or both AoE, sure.


Uh yeah, actually you did.
Next they are going to say Medvac are not that great in TvP Because things can die.

Terrans dont even know how their own units work. They should try to learn that first before commenting on how they suck.

That is a really, really lame comparison. We'll say MEDIVACS aren't great? Come on dude get out of here...
Next they are going to say Medvac are not that great in TvP Because things can die.

Terrans dont even know how their own units work. They should try to learn that first before commenting on how they suck.

That is a really, really lame comparison. We'll say MEDIVACS aren't great? Come on dude get out of here...


I have seen worse, more than once, from pro player.
12/01/2011 09:32 AMPosted by Slurf
Saying ravens are useless is like saying ghosts are useless because I can feed back them. Feed back takes energy and micro. If I can feed back your raven, odds are you didn't micro it correctly.


So does this mean you guys will stop saying high templar are useless because they can be EMPed?


I can't speak for others. I personally love my high templars. I am not preferring them to colossi.
Day9 has stated that just because a certain unit did not work in a game, you shouldn't write it off. In fact, what you should try is using a different number. Try more than one raven. Try different combinations. I'm not sure the raven is the answer to using mmm against collos, templar, chargelot. It does, however, work wonders with banshees.

I recognize you're masters OP and I respect that, but I think you should try some different stuff. You certainly can't argue in a couple sentences a point like this so try again.


There are only two times ravens are good in TvP. The first is for an all-in attack like the 1/1/1. The second is if they went early dt so you can move out around the map and then just !@#$ing go kill them for being POS.

It isn't that terrans dislike ravens. They are used constantly in late game TvT because PDD is very good in air battles and HSM can own clumps of vikings or ghosts that are trying to nuke.

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