So they tried to make the thor viable tvp..

General Discussion
Blizzard attempted to make the thor viable a few patches ago, so why not attempt to fix the siege tank in tvp? Reduce aoe, +10 damage??

Or maybe -1 supply reduce aoe and -25 gas?

I mean hell, blizzard wants build diversity why not throw a bone to mech?
I don't think you could buff mech without outright killing TvZ.
I would like proof that mech is underpowered. (in tvp)
Siege Tanks are viable in TvP...

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232753

I could probably find you a few other mid-late game compositions involving Siege Tanks, but I assume you're capable of doing that yourself. Not to mention the current power of 1/1/1. It may not be overpowered (I honestly still think it is), but buffing it is not a logical course of action.

Blizzard is making mech more appealing in HotS. Blizzard can't do anything in WoL to make mech better in TvP without breaking the other matchups (other than Re-reverting the Thor energy change, which I think should happen).

I would like proof that mech is terribly underpowered.


Goody, a pro with 70 APM, claims that Mech isn't viable in TvP anymore.
12/01/2011 06:51 PMPosted by Spyder
I don't think you could buff mech without outright killing TvZ.

Well, you can by removing the Thor's energy bar and the 250mm strike cannon. That would affect only TVP while keeping the Thor the way it currently is in TVZ.
They should buff mech by giving 250mm 10 range, which slightly outranges colo and allows them to use it before getting blitzed by charging templars with feedback.
12/01/2011 06:51 PMPosted by Spyder
I don't think you could buff mech without outright killing TvZ.
Aoe is what kills zerg from tanks, not the damage.
12/01/2011 06:54 PMPosted by Steric
other than Re-reverting the Thor energy change, which I think should happen
It was overpowered, that is why they reverted the change, I feel blizzard should explore possibilities with siege tanks, thors are too a+movy and easy to use.
12/01/2011 06:54 PMPosted by Steric
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232753
thanks for the link, I have been doing full mech for months, i guess i could attempt a dash of bio.

EDIT: This guy uses the exact same opening/reaction as I do, only I've been transitioning into full mech.
12/01/2011 06:54 PMPosted by Steric
Goody, a pro with 70 APM, claims that Mech isn't viable in TvP anymore.
And the last gm mech user has fallen.
12/01/2011 06:56 PMPosted by boxturtle
They should buff mech by giving 250mm 10 range, which slightly outranges colo and allows them to use it before getting blitzed by charging templars with feedback.


Thors would hardcounter Immortals AND Collosi with 250mm Strike. That'd be overdoing it a little.
12/01/2011 06:57 PMPosted by Steric
They should buff mech by giving 250mm 10 range, which slightly outranges colo and allows them to use it before getting blitzed by charging templars with feedback.


Thors would hardcounter Immortals AND Collosi with 250mm Strike. That'd be overdoing it a little.


Fine, sigh. They should give them 9 ground range and 9 range with 250mm.
other than Re-reverting the Thor energy change, which I think should happen
It was overpowered, that is why they reverted the change, I feel blizzard should explore possibilities with siege tanks, thors are too a+movy and easy to use.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232753
thanks for the link, I have been doing full mech for months, i guess i could attempt a dash of bio.

It was overpowered at the time. Now Immortals have +1 extra range and calls to get rid of 250mm strike cannon on top of that would help prevent it from being OP again as well.



Thors would hardcounter Immortals AND Collosi with 250mm Strike. That'd be overdoing it a little.


Fine, sigh. They should give them 9 ground range and 9 range with 250mm.


You're missing the point. If 250mm Cannon had respectable range, Thors would actually be able to use it. The ability is actually quite comparable to Neural Parasite when you think about it. It's a Channeling ability with 7 range that prevents the enemy unit you use it on from attacking your units. Both deal damage, Strike Cannons deals 500 damage to that target and Neural Parasite deals whatever damage that unit can deal during the duration of the spell. The difference is, Thors have 400 life, making it impossible to quickly focus them down, unlike Infestors with 90 life and Infestors don't have an attack outside of their spells while Thors drop the hammer. Neural Parasite was overpowered when it had 9 range. Even the people that argued it was balanced argued that it was balanced BECAUSE Infestors had only 90 life.

The point is, any buff to the range of 250mm Cannon would make it an overpowered counter to Immortals (which are SUPPOSED to counter Thors) and Collosi, which are pretty much a staple of the Protoss army.

thanks for the link, I have been doing full mech for months, i guess i could attempt a dash of bio.

EDIT: This guy uses the exact same opening/reaction as I do, only I've been transitioning into full mech.


I misunderstood the intentions of your original post. I thought you were arguing that Siege Tanks were useless in TvP outside of 1/1/1, which is a position that many Terrans share.
You're missing the point. If 250mm Cannon had respectable range, Thors would actually be able to use it.


Lack of range isnt the reason 250mm isnt used though. the reason 250mm isnt used is because of the excessive animation length during which the thor cant move or anything.
12/01/2011 07:08 PMPosted by Khobai
You're missing the point. If 250mm Cannon had respectable range, Thors would actually be able to use it.


Lack of range isnt the reason 250mm isnt used though. the reason 250mm isnt used is because of the excessive animation length during which the thor cant move or anything.

Yep, that is a bit of a pain on the ability as well. If it did have a longer range, it would be more useable though. Not that I'm advocating that. It would create balance problems instead of fixing them.
I don't play Terran, so I don't actually know, but I feel that a good line of Marauders backed up by Thors and Tanks would put some serious hurt a standard protoss comp, so long as the Siege tanks were target firing on high priority units such as Colossus, Templar, and Sentries. Thors have awesome ground DPS and on those rare cases I face off against Thors, Zealots just seem to melt away >_<

Perhaps throwing in a splash of marines, a ghost or two, and possibly a couple banshees could really round out that comp, though you'd have to be very very conscious of your positioning with a comp like that
But if it had more range it would counter things its not supposed to. Thats not a good solution.

The best solution is how to fix strike cannons without turning them into an ability which lets Thors counter units they arnt supposed to counter.

Lowering the animation time from 10 seconds to 6-7 seconds seems like a good start.
12/01/2011 07:08 PMPosted by Khobai
You're missing the point. If 250mm Cannon had respectable range, Thors would actually be able to use it.


Lack of range isnt the reason 250mm isnt used though. the reason 250mm isnt used is because of the excessive animation length during which the thor cant move or anything.


Sigh, fine 12 range. That will make up for the time it takes for those speedy templar to charge at the thors and feedback them.

I'm glad Protoss want Terran buffed too. It's odd how we all work together.
I'm glad Protoss want Terran buffed too.


I want everything thats underused to be buffed. Strike Cannons are certainly underused.

Consequently I want everything thats overused, like Marines, to be heavily nerfed.
I don't play Terran, so I don't actually know, but I feel that a good line of Marauders backed up by Thors and Tanks would put some serious hurt a standard protoss comp, so long as the Siege tanks were target firing on high priority units such as Colossus, Templar, and Sentries. Thors have awesome ground DPS and on those rare cases I face off against Thors, Zealots just seem to melt away >_<

Perhaps throwing in a splash of marines, a ghost or two, and possibly a couple banshees could really round out that comp, though you'd have to be very very conscious of your positioning with a comp like that


You left off the splash of Vikings that are needed to shut down Stargate transitions and any attempts at Collosi which are powerful enough to pose a threat even to Mech-based armies. You also need a few Hellions to deal with Chargelots, which are quite effective against pretty much everything you mentioned. But yes, that army composition works quite well, although you're pretty much forced to do a 1-1-1 opening if you want to set up the infrastructure for that composition.

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