Blizz refuses major balance fix til expansion

General Discussion
Prev 1 2 3 21 Next
I doubt that they won't patch the game all the way until Heart of the Swarm. Especially since they've been patching WoW between expansions regularly.


Considering it took them almost a year to attempt to fix pvp in wotlk, I wouldn't hold out much hope.


I think you underestimate how hard it is to balance something like World of Warcraft. I could write an essay here but I'll leave it at "It's oodles of work and takes a lot of time."
The balance isn't anywhere near as bad as the complaints make it out to be so yeah I only expect minor tweaks. A few tweaks down for Terran and a few tweaks up for Zerg and Protoss.
There will be fixes to help the issue no doubt. Blizzard has always been pretty good about that. However I think your right that some of the deep core design flaws with Zerg probably wont be addressed until the expansion where they can really redesign the game with new units an abilities. It's not like people didn't have go through this before with past Blizzard RTS though.


Minor things perhaps but if Blizzard finds "deep core design flaws" I doubt they'll put it off til an expansion to iron them out.



Well Blizzard has a history of addressing certain complaints people have with their race by adding new units an abilities. An this rarely happens before an expansion. Good example would be to look at Vanilla Warcraft 3 an then look at what new units were added in the expansion. Undead got a real Melee hero. Orc got a Healer.

So yeah I bet we will see Zerg get a lot more fleshed out unit wise in HOTS giving them way more builds. Until then it will probably be tweaks just to help them stay competitive.
There will be fixes to help the issue no doubt. Blizzard has always been pretty good about that. However I think your right that some of the deep core design flaws with Zerg probably wont be addressed until the expansion where they can really redesign the game with new units an abilities. It's not like people didn't have go through this before with past Blizzard RTS though.


Minor things perhaps but if Blizzard finds "deep core design flaws" I doubt they'll put it off til an expansion to iron them out.



Well Blizzard has a history of addressing certain complaints people have with their race by adding new units an abilities. An this rarely happens before an expansion. Good example would be to look at Vanilla Warcraft 3 an then look at what new units were added in the expansion. Undead got a real Melee hero. Orc got a Healer.

So yeah I bet we will see Zerg get a lot more fleshed out unit wise in HOTS giving them way more builds. Until then it will probably be tweaks just to help them stay competitive.


I fully expect no units to be added into the game until HOTS but design changes or abilities I don't doubt will be added if they find the need to.
(Hopefully this doesn't read too harsh, it's been a tough Monday. ;) <3 <3 <3)

Our intent is not to have a game with broken balance in an attempt to sell an expansion. That should go without saying. It makes me sad it isn't.

Our intent is also to not apply knee jerk fixes based on the first few weeks as understanding of the game and strategies are still in flux. The game is young, and we don't feel that it would have been helpful to progressing peoples understanding by throwing in tons of fixes based on flavor-of-the-week (or day, or hour) strats.

We see a lot of variation between the regions. Making a change for how NA players play may be completely ridiculous for how KR players play, and actually mess up a balance there. For instance 10 of their top 20 players are zerg. So that's one place where we have to be mindful and careful and attack balance issues with great prejudice.

That said. There are balance changes coming. What everyone was seeing in beta with tons of quick balance changes are because it was in beta and we feel we can get away with throwing out a lot of 'we think this may help' type fixes. With a live environment we're not going to throw stuff out there unless we're pretty sure. We've played. We've looked at data. We've looked at each region. And then we act. Which isn't to say we may not be wrong from time to time, but it's a more measured approach than beta players may be used to or expecting.
Thanks for the response. It's much appreciated.
Thanks for clearing that up!
Is Terran OP???, maybe but its too early to tell. I play all races but yeah I do lean towards Terran. I want nothing more than the game to be totally balanced so if it is so there will be patches I feel. Blizzard has a lot on their plate. That being said...

I feel like the Zerg and especially the Protoss have many abilities like storm or mind control that are truly powerful yet don't often get used among the masses of SC2 players. Every race has a unique way to play and if you don't like using the "spells" then maybe you should play Terran after all? I mean we are all human right? Most of us think that way I feel. But I have been frustrated and lost many games to Protoss storms or canons that detect/and shoot air and ground units. (different account) I thought Toss was OP... But we learn new counters all the time and I THINK i can counter that now but its rare when I see it. When I do see it it makes life hard for me to counter it. Please if you play Toss try and use more storms and force fields to break up the weakened Marines. It's such a good play! I don't know who is OP but I'm all for balance!

What do you all think? Are the Protoss and Zerg abilities worthless or is it that they just don't get used much..

Funny random side note... I hate Voidrays! Are they OP? LOL
Not to mention, not everyone will buy the expansion so obviously they wont leave those that are still playing the standalone with a completely unbalanced game.
I'm glad Blizzard is taking a reserved approach to balance. Nevertheless, let me know when Zerg receives its due or when Terran requires more than an A-click to wreck havoc on players half as skilled as they are.

I switched to protoss yesterday and my 1v1 has dramatically improved despite playing about 5 times as many games as zerg. But don't listen to me, listen to the pro's who know the game and are about to abandon the zerg ship.
Thanks for responding! :D
(Hopefully this doesn't read too harsh, it's been a tough Monday. ;) <3 <3 <3)

Our intent is not to have a game with broken balance in an attempt to sell an expansion. That should go without saying. It makes me sad it isn't.

Our intent is not to apply knee jerk fixes based on the first few weeks as understanding of the game and strategies are still in flux. The game is young, and we don't feel that it would have been helpful to progressing peoples understanding by throwing in tons of fixes based on flavor-of-the-week (or day, or hour) strats.

We see a lot of variation between the regions. Making a change for how NA players play may be completely ridiculous for how KR players play, and actually mess up a balance there. For instance 10 of their top 20 players are zerg. So that's one place where we have to be mindful and careful and attack balance issues with great prejudice.

That said. There are balance changes coming. What everyone was seeing in beta with tons of quick balance changes are because it was in beta and we feel we can get away with throwing out a lot of 'we think this may help' type fixes. With a live environment we're not going to throw stuff out there unless we're pretty sure. We've played. We've looked at data. We've looked at each region. And then we act. Which isn't to say we may not be wrong from time to time, but it's a more measured approach than beta players may be used to or expecting.

Would you be able to comment on whether these fixes will be part of that upcoming patch that's supposed to come 5 weeks from release?
I think you underestimate how hard it is to balance something like World of Warcraft. I could write an essay here but I'll leave it at "It's oodles of work and takes a lot of time."


I don't think you realize what they did to pvp in the patch leading up wotlk. It didn't have anything to do with class balance, it had to do with pvp being totally unplayable for everyone.


First, thanks Bashiok for proving people wrong that Blizzard doesn't reply...
@Hoson. Although PvP may have been borked in WoW as a result of a patch (never played WoW though), PvP in a MMO is a completely different animal. A lot more mechanics in tweaking there than tweaking a RTS. That being said, SC2 is focused around multiplayer 1vs1, WoW is based around PvE, yet another animal.
Would you be able to comment on whether these fixes will be part of that upcoming patch that's supposed to come 5 weeks from release?


Do you have a quote or something? We don't generally give patch timelines so I'd be interested to see it.
I don't want to be a jerk, but a silver 1v1 player does not know what balancing is needed.
Would you be able to comment on whether these fixes will be part of that upcoming patch that's supposed to come 5 weeks from release?


Do you have a quote or something? We don't generally give patch timelines so I'd be interested to see it.


headshot
Thanks for the reply Bashiok. I agree with your attitude toward balance changes. People don't seem to understand that the meta game changes over time. However, there are changes that need to be made. Over all, things are fairly even, so I don't worry too much.
I think you can apply Blizzard's "It'll be here when it's done. It's done when it's ready" philosophy to the next patch. Would you want it any other way?
yay I'm unbanned to a great thread.

ANSWER ME THIS!!!! GHOSTS AND MARAUDERS, HOW DO THEY WORK?

(will we be seeing any balance changes with these 2 cute units?)

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum