Carriers v. Mutalisk

Protoss Discussion
02/18/2012 07:02 AMPosted by Psychotropic
NOTE: This is just unit vs unit on the unit tester, actually achieving something like this in a ladder match is completely improbable (if not impossible) and impractical. Gathering that amount of carriers with that amount of upgrades is really hard, and our current strategies just don't have the capabilites to do so.
I can have 6 carriers off 2 base by 14:15 with a large gateway army and 2-4 Voids :/
While the 30 Mutas vs 6 Carriers is Muta-supply favored they are way more costly. It's the one instance of exchanging the usual supply effectiveness for cost effectiveness for Zerg and Protoss. (Where Protoss is usually supply effective and Zerg is usually cost effective).

Still, a Protoss will have more than 6 Carriers, especially in their own base against 30 mutas. The actual fight will go drastically different. Also noting that Carrier micro of pulling it back is actually massively more effective than most give it credit for. I've swung massive battles in my favor by just pulling Carriers back.
In an actual battle, 4-5 carriers protected by a stalker ball in front of them will do tremendous damage to a muta ball as the mutas will need to fly into the stalkers' kill zone before they can even target the carriers. Most zerg army compositions that have large amounts of muta tend to not have too many roaches, meaning a pretty large stalker army will do very well for itself with carriers supporting it.
I don't think you're thinking clearly. Roaches are not what would be made anyway. Because Stalkers are half-decent vs them. Know what they're not half decent against? Zerglings. Which are easily made and are why Muta/ling is extremely popular and very very very stupidly powerful.
As same reason reactionary pheonix does not work well vs. mass muta play, you cant get enough carriers quick enough to shred mutas. Of course, on same supply base, carriers will pwn mutas to tears. But of course zerg...
1. can pressure existing carriers with swarms of muta ( just like it would happen vs. reactionary pheonix)
2. can build corruptors, which is natural counter to carriers.
The problem here is Mutalisks are so much easier and faster to build than Carriers, the whole matchup is almost irrelevant.
Just did this quick on the unit tester map.

10 mutas wreck - 1 carrier with graviton catapult... Mutas lose 1.
Even without micro, just A-move in the mutas still wreck the carrier.

I used the number 10 because if the zerg times his larvae correctly, he will be able to produce 10 right off the bat.

Gonna do more testing.

2 Carriers with GC wreck 10 Mutas only losing 3 interceptors. (NO TARGET FIRE)

10 Mutalisks target firing down 2 carriers... Carriers win. Again mutas have zero upgrades.

I carrier left with 83 Hull.


30 Mutalisks without Micro wreck 4 carriers with 20 + mutas left. No target fire here.

6 carriers vs 30 Mutalisks without Micro. Carriers win, all carriers alive 1 carrier left with 3 HP. Constant stream of interceptors here so mutas lose big time.

6 carriers vs 30 mutalisks WITH target fire. Mutas win only 9 mutas left though.

+1 Attack Mutas vs +1 Attack Interceptors:

10 Mutas vs 1 carrier - Mutas win, 8 mutas left.
15 Mutas vs 2 carriers - Mutas win, 10 mutas left. (no micro)
15 Mutas vs 3 Carriers - Carriers win, 2 left. (No micro)
15 Mutas vs 3 Carriers - Mutas win 4 left 1 at half hp(with target fire)
30 Mutas vs 6 Carriers - Carriers win, 1 with 6 HP left. (No target fire)
30 Mutas vs 6 Carriers - Mutas win, 10 mutas left. (Target fire)

I think upgrades favour Carriers way more so I'm gonna see what happens.

+1 Attack Mutas vs +2 Attack Carriers:
10 Mutas vs 1 Carrier - Mutas win - 8 Mutas left.
15 Mutas vs 2 Carriers - Mutas win, 6 Mutas left.
15 Mutas vs 3 Carriers - Carriers win, 3 left - 1 has 200 HP left(no target fire)
15 Mutas vs 3 Carriers - Carriers win, 2 left 1 with 25 HP left (target fire)
30 Mutas vs 6 Carriers - Carriers win, 6 left, 2 with 180 HP left (no target fire)
30 Mutas vs 6 Carriers - Carriers win, 1 left no hull damage (target fire)

2/1 Mutas vs 2/1 Carriers:
10 Mutas vs 1 Carrier - Mutas win - 8 Mutas left
15 Mutas vs 2 Carriers - Mutas win - 9 left 1 with 25 HP remaining. (no target fire)
15 Mutas vs 3 Carriers - Carriers win, 2 left 1 with half shields. (No target fire)
15 Mutas vs 3 Carriers - Mutas win, 5 left 1 with 25 HP (target fire)
30 Mutas vs 6 Carriers - Carriers win, 6 left 1 with 50 HP left (no target fire)
30 Mutas vs 6 Carriers - Mutas win, 10 left 1 with 1 HP (target fire)

2/2 Mutas vs 3/2 Carriers (this can only mean decent numbers as upgrades are now considerably high)

20 Mutas vs 3 Carriers - Mutas win, 5 left, 2 with 40hp 1 with 10 hp (no target fire)
30 Mutas vs 6 Carriers - Carriers win, 4 left 1 with 90 hull. (no target fire)
30 Mutas vs 6 Carriers - Mutas win, 8 left full HP (target fire)

The muta death cloud really gets above 50, but its safe to assume getting over 6 carriers will be incredibly late game.

50 Mutas 3/2 vs 10 Carriers 3/3/1 - Carriers win, 9 left 1 with 50 Hull (no target fire)
50 Mutas 3/2 vs 10 Carriers 3/3/1 - Mutas win, 17left 3 with red HP left (target fire)

To beat a 50 muta 3/3 cloud with target fire, using 3/3/1 carriers you need.
12 Carriers beat 50 3/3 mutas, with target fire, 2 left full Hull.

Just to check if the outcome favors muta without target fire.

50 3/3 mutas vs 12 3/3/1 Carriers - Carriers win, 10 left 2 with yello hull.(No target fire)

NOTE: This is just unit vs unit on the unit tester, actually achieving something like this in a ladder match is completely improbable (if not impossible) and impractical. Gathering that amount of carriers with that amount of upgrades is really hard, and our current strategies just don't have the capabilites to do so.

Just answering the question... "How well do carriers fair against Mutas?"... and you can read the answer by yourself.

:D

Again... this is quite impractical on a ladder match and most likely done on 4 bases, which makes it almost impossible, so I will only say "Impractical and Improbable".

Thanks for reading


I would imagine any good carrier build would have gateway support, which means guiardian shield. Using Sidewinder/venom's carrier builds has made my PvZ life much easier, especially against mutas. (though this is plat I'm in, but they're masters...)
A lot of people have mentioned the sidewinder/venom build, could anyone link it?
I've run Sidewinder/venom's carrier build and had mutas interrupt me around when the first set of carriers have popped out. The carriers definitely turned the tide with stalker support. They do well but anything we have will do poorly against muta balls that are 30 or more large.
Hell, even the pro's have a heck of a lot to figure out with Carrier timings. Nobody knows anything about them yet. They are just starting to become used heavily.


What the hell!!? Don't necro-bump threads!!
I have been stuck on the top 5 silver league for a month (still trying to enter in the golden league). But recetnly I noticed that on this league every zerg plays with the same 4 basic strategies:
*zerglings rush - zealots
*roaches - more zealots + inmortals (and other things if you have: sentries, stalkers, etc)
*swarm host
*MUTAS... my nemesis, I made stalkers, archons if I can, but recently now I make carriers (1 stargate, 1 by one carrier) in 15min of gameplay i have an usual composition of ground forces with 1 carrier, 17min, a 2nd carrier. The other players don't expect the carrier and focus fire on it, and my ground forces do the rest of the job that the carrier can't.

Maybe in 2 weeks with more experience on this strategy I cant tell you more, but for me it work very well the carrier against the zerg, even 1 carrier.
Carriers do very well against mutas but take loo long to arrive /thread.
very rarely see muta v. protoss play


LolWut?

I think you need to check if you are playing WoL mate.

Anyway carriers take like 10 mins to build mutas can be built in an instant

/thread
06/19/2013 09:10 PMPosted by Ivan
MUTAS... my nemesis, I made stalkers, archons if I can, but recently now I make carriers (1 stargate, 1 by one carrier) in 15min of gameplay i have an usual composition of ground forces with 1 carrier, 17min, a 2nd carrier. The other players don't expect the carrier and focus fire on it, and my ground forces do the rest of the job that the carrier can't.


Just make phoenix. Get the range upgrade and chase the mutas around the map, then destroy all his overlords. You're in silver, they'll never see it coming.
Pheonixes are way better than Carriers against muta

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