[PvZ Build] 2-base Mothership Expand

Protoss Discussion
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How do you scout for a Baneling Bust? [It hits before the 2 Stargates have finished making anything...]
Just had the best 36 minute PvZ with this build.

Thought i would lose lol (and the guy was top 8 diamong too)

- Heres the replay:

http://drop.sc/223929
07/18/2012 02:57 AMPosted by Park
How do you scout for a Baneling Bust? [It hits before the 2 Stargates have finished making anything...]


You check for a 3rd base by 5:00. If there isn't one, add on more Cannons and Sentries, then continue as before.
Just had the best 36 minute PvZ with this build.

Thought i would lose lol (and the guy was top 8 diamong too)

- Heres the replay:

http://drop.sc/223929


That was a good macro game win, but I reckon it would have been easier if you skipped the Colossus and made a couple of Warp Prisms. Warping Chargelots into his expos warms my heart and breaks his bank.
I try to go for colossus when i see that he made a crapton of hydras

But using warp prisms is a great idea, i always forget about it.
I try to go for colossus when i see that he made a crapton of hydras

But using warp prisms is a great idea, i always forget about it.


Hydras are already awful against Charge and Archons. If you ever Vortex Hydras, their entire army will die and kill basically nothing, assuming you run your own stuff in there.
I think what kill hydras are chargelots. On a few games i made too many archons and too few chargelots and mass hydras just crushed them. (its why i started making colossus on a few game)

But i'll try making a lot more chargelots from now on (main army and harassing)
is it absolute sacrilidge to build 1-2 pheonix as you're making VRs, bcause you're paranoid about mutas?
07/20/2012 11:39 AMPosted by ZergBioMech
is it absolute sacrilidge to build 1-2 pheonix as you're making VRs, bcause you're paranoid about mutas?


Yeah, you can make a quick round to get in there and scout. Doing it blindly delays your Mothership by about 20-30 seconds though.
Just tried a couple games using this style, and it works really well.
By my estimation, I probably have something like an 85% win rate with this style, and most of the 15% in losses were due in part to stupid mistakes on my end such as forgetting to research Charge, forgetting to wait for my Mothership, and not making Immortals. Other than those the losses can be attributed to Mutas lol
Just got promoted vs a zerg using this build . xD

(was gonna post the replay but i think i already posted enough on this thread)
Been playing with Carrier transitions instead of Immortal transitions lately. Not sure how I feel about it yet. It's just really slow.. most games turn into like 5 or 6 base max army clash-fests.
07/23/2012 09:44 PMPosted by Sidewinder
Been playing with Carrier transitions instead of Immortal transitions lately. Not sure how I feel about it yet. It's just really slow.. most games turn into like 5 or 6 base max army clash-fests.
I think you can do a carrier transition, but maybe you can try and look at how Oz does it with 7 stargates, but uses his Mothership/Archon/Immortal/Stalker army in good positions to deny Zerg any further advance while dropping Zerg heavily with 2 prisms and applying pressure that way. If Zerg advances, vortex > own > rinse repeat, until you have carriers and Zerg has less corruptors than he needs and you can basically win with Carriers and an archon/zealot re-max.

Your build is really good. You just need to make sure you're taking at least 4-5 bases before you think about carriers. You can prepare for carriers with +air attack upgrades, then add more and more stargates slowly as you build up a bank on an almost maxed army with your archon/Mothership + voidray or gate support. Then, use 2 prisms with speed (if you want) to zip across the map and kill expos and drones, or just force Zerg's attention somewhere, and maybe even force part of his army in the wrong position (in a best case scenario).

Try it :)
I've already done it plenty of times actually. You actually start Carriers as you're taking a 4th base.

I know how to get Carriers out in PvZ, trust me ;).
07/24/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Sidewinder
I know how to get Carriers out in PvZ, trust me ;).
Haha i know i know :P

I was just wondering if you saw the recent MLG Oz vs Stephano game - that's all :P

You're pretty much the expert on carrier builds on the forums man - I never doubted that one second!
I saw the end of it, heard a lot about it.

If you want to see a great Carrier game, you should watch Inca vs.. I think YugiOh a couple seasons ago in Up + Down. Inca lost, but he demonstrated how !@#$ing powerful the composition is against proper response compositions.

He mainly lost because of his hesitation to move out, hesitation to expand and damage he took earlier in the game. Still, sick game. He went from behind like 60 supply in the late-game, to even supplies, to up in supply after successive battles.
If you want to see a great Carrier game, you should watch Inca vs.. I think YugiOh a couple seasons ago in Up + Down. Inca lost, but he demonstrated how !@#$ing powerful the composition is against proper response compositions.
Oh definitely!

I am currently using your 2 base 2 stargate mothership void-ray build and I am REALLY owning up any roach/corruptor/infestor play. The only thing I find that annoys me is that whenever I am using my 1st 4 voids to the zerg's 3rd to harass, he already has like 4-6 queens sitting there with a lot of transfusion energy... The response by the zerg is always bad though with like 3 spores per base lol... When I see that, I just move down my ramp, take my 3rd and the Mothership pops out JUST after, and I just mass cannons while retreating my voids. I have lost a couple of voids on my way back before, but it is not big deal with 4 more voids at home + cannon defenses.

When I go into lategame, it depends on Zerg for how soon I get the carriers. Sometimes, they derp and army into vortexes and I crush them, and replace my supply lost with a few carriers off my 2 stargates and then just win :P. Other times, I build a 4th and try to take a 5th, and maintain a mazxed army while harassing with zealots, and I try to do what Oz was doing with warp-prisms and try to harass Zerg's bases and force him to bumrush into an archon toilet, after which i can produce carriers off 4-6 stargates and win with pure carrier/archon/mothership.

Still, sick game. He went from behind like 60 supply in the late-game, to even supplies, to up in supply after successive battles.
I am not surprised. My PvZ's look awesome in the units lost tab lol!

I sometimes have 10k lost in resources vs 28-30k on the Zerg's side lol...

It's INSANE!
How many Stargates do you guys add on when making a Carrier transition? I wanna try this the next time my opponents try Baneling/Hydralisk or Baneling/Infestor on me.
07/25/2012 08:37 AMPosted by EthanKairos
How many Stargates do you guys add on when making a Carrier transition?
Depends on your economy at the time and how aggressive Zerg is being.

Typically if you JUST killed Zerg's Lair army with a vortex, you can just make 2 carriers from your initial 2 stargates and remax on pure zealot/archon/templar and win the game. If you are facing a Hive tech army of BL/Infestor/Corruptor and you cannot really kill it right away without taking a big risk, then just add +2 or +3 air attack upgrades, add 2 more stargates to get it up to 4, and make sure you're on at least 4 bases.

If you're on 5 bases, you can have up to 6-7 stargates and constantly make Carriers while reinforcing with Archons. Normally you judge how many carriers you need based on how many corruptors Zerg makes because you want enough archons to splash damage corruptors that try to attack the carriers, and have enough archons to withstand broodlord damage long enough to kill a lot of corruptors.

The fact that Carriers have an effective 14 range works greatly in your favor to dance back and forth and lure corruptors in to die to archon splash. If you have a vortex or 2 available, it gets a LOT harder for zerg to deal with because even with infestors, Protoss can just use a few HTs to feedback > morph into more archons and make Zerg's like hell.

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