That same 3 hatch roachling zvp build

Zerg Discussion
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09/25/2012 10:57 PMPosted by CoW
Do you have a good Terran all in?

If you scout a 1 rax expand, you can go ~22 drones, 2 queens, 2 hatches (main and natural). 15 hatch, 15 pool, 16 extractor. Cut drones at 28 supply (22 drones, 4 lings, 2 queens). Speed at 100 gas. Baneling nest when you get 50 more. Mass lings to 60 supply. At around 44-52 supply run ~8 lings near enemy base (outside helion patrol paths) and morph to banelings. As banelings morph, run all other lings towards base. Keep streaming in lings.

You might need a second round of banelings to break into the main. Gas can sometimes be an issue if too many banelings get used in initial attack. When unscouted, I have a 100% win rate using this strategy. The key to it working is that the terran has to think you are going the macro route. Two queens, drone transfers to the natural, and hiding the lings is key to the strategy.

Another variant of this build uses roaches, lings, and banelings. The roach variant results in less banelings and hits slightly slower. It is also more vulnerable to marauders in bunkers if you fail to take out the bunkers with banelings. Adding roaches, however, makes it easier to bust the second wall into the main and is slightly more powerful. There are more economical versions of the bust as well, but any version will set you back significantly unless you do decent economic damage (the version outlined above will result in an almost definite loss unless you take out the natural and a lot of SCVs at a minimum).

Personally, I'd recommend against too many all-in games. A few all-ins can make things interesting, but too many all-ins won't help you improve.
For some reason whenever I try to download the replays, I get a message saying that either I don't have the required program or I don't have permission to access it. I don't ever remember having that kind of issue before. My current sc2 replays still work just peachy...does anyone have any idea what might be happening?
Oboeman, I've watched all replays... and the one you lost... the attack indeed was later... but that wasn't the main problem... you had your lings dancing and trying to attack the forge while the roaches did all the fighting... had them been fighting along, you might have broke in in time to deal with the zealot warp and the cannons
This build still work for me too! I had a very close game vs a 7 gate after FFE. Yeah now that toss has forgotten about this build I bring it back and win almost every ZvP!
if he managed to build 7 gates you probably hit too late... i just tried this build and won... like... the dude rushed for immortals... and did have 1 immortal, 1 sentry and 1 zealot... like it mattered... lol... the constant flood of lings after the door is open is awesome
09/26/2012 08:40 AMPosted by Nasreth
mm yeah this is a great build. I've measured out the gas timings so that you can get 4 roaches at his base by 7:45 with 4 more about 15 seconds behind - you basically drop your first extractor at 4:15 when you drop your third hatch, and you drop your second extractor at 4:45 (when the first one finishes). This gets you exactly 300 gas in time for the roach warren to finish (100 for speed and 200 for your 8 roaches). Once you hit that gas count you can pull your drones off gas and just pump speedlings (or queens and drones if he holds his main by fully walling off and getting a void ray out). That said, if you don't kill his natural with this build, you lose.

I try to avoid double gas because it mineral starves you and even if you work out the drone cut/overlords to get enough minerals for the 8 roaches, it takes away from the zergling count in your initial push.

but I will double gas if I have to take gas late (due to a pesky probe for example), but usually only with 2 drones.

instead of double gas, I just try to be more ballsy with taking the first gas earlier, even if my queen and lings aren't done yet, as long as the probe is outside my base I start the gas anyway.

I also stopped using my first inject. I don't need those larva yet anyway (because I am cutting drones), so I walk the queen straight to the natural and make a creep tumour then inject the natural. Make sure you build the roaches at the hatchery closest to your opponent (not your main). Maybe the creep spread gets you there 5 seconds earlier.
09/27/2012 06:22 AMPosted by Oboeman
Make sure you build the roaches at the hatchery closest to your opponent (not your main)

this made me feel so stupid... I always tried to hide my roaches... but when you have the roaches ready, it's no longer time to hide, but to go kill him :D
Gun straight across the map. do not slow down for anything.

If you can clear the towers with lings without revealing your intentions (ie before speed finishes, and with as few lings as possible) then do it, by all means. But it's most important to hit as early as possible. At this point it's almost too late for him to react.

If he is harassing you with zealots at this time, do not fight them with your roaches. Roaches must go straight to his base, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars, and let your lings deal with his zealots.
Yep, this has kicked my a@@ a couple times. What's funny are games like a couple days ago where someone roach rushed me, took out my main... and still lost because he couldn't macro.
that is sad, not funny...

poor little fellow cheesed his way into platinum
I really like this post.... I know I'm not adding much value with this but....
Thanks Oboeman!

How common is it for zerg to cheese all in protoss? On ladder? I'm guessing 5-10 percent??

I think it's sad that standard protoss play seems to lose to a 6 pool or zenio, bust or this.

It seems to me that most protoss only ALL-IN zerg so, it's only fitting to do it back to them. There going to be screaming for the zerg nerf bat!

I wonder what Idra would say right now?
he'd call it stupid gimmicky cheese, and he'd be right.

but for now i'll be collecting easy free wins while he loses every zvp :)
more games.

There's a funny game here where a guy tries to pylon block me, and I hold it, then all in him. I'm pretty sure he was ahead after the block though - we were both set back by about a minute, but he had warpgate and an immortal out when I arrived, which should never happen, so I guess I was set back more than him, or maybe I didn't continue the build cleanly enough. still worked.

The ohana one felt close because I missed a lot of injects (which is pretty shameful when you only have one queen :p) and took a few bad fights (let him use his probes in battle a bit too effectively).

I think i'm still 100% vs toss since that one game on cloud kingdom in the first post (I may have lost vs a gateway build at some point, but can't remember where it falls in this chronology). you guys will be the first to know when I lose one. apparently this coin that i'm flipping has heads on both sides.
Tried this a couple of times and it's pretty much free win. The one time I lost the protoss had gone blind fast DTs, he sacked his natural held his ramp with a DT and a few sentries, unfortunately I was on auto pilot and didn't get detection up in time and he sniped two hatches and a ton of drones.
you can normally beat DTs, but you have to be aware of the threat. You blast through his wall with no trouble, try to get a few units up his ramp to prevent him from securing that with a sentry, and if at all possible run a ling around for a scout.

I've done this build against proxy DT once, so I didn't see the shrine and had no idea, so the game got funny, but I still won because i had killed all his probes.
Had a loss today.

But I forgot zergling speed. does that count? <-- there's the loss
I used to do this a lot too :-) It's good if you can deny the scouting...then I realized that if you get bored of this you can also send hydra ling into his base with a nydus which makes the game more intense because good players will scout it right away making it a fight vs time before the probes can kill it. The build you're talking about lets you macro out of it easier though which is why I prefer it. The nydus I save for when the toss decides to make 10000 canons to stop my expo.
guess what?
11-1 vs protoss today on ladder.
8-0 vs forge fast expand. - these games against same guy :D - these games against same guy :D and it works twice. - LOSS, but not a standard game. opens with zealot cannon rush. but it was still close. i may have won if i had found and denied that pylon by the 3rd base. also i mishandled my gas economy while being cannon rushed. this was a loss but it could be turned into a win. - "baddies win". this shouldn't work against a 1 gate expand, but I thought it'd give it a shot. it worked because he decided to hide his phoenix instead of scouting. - not this build. he does one base colossus warp prism all-in. cool build. almost had me. - not this build. he goes 1 gate expand so i go 2 base muta.

I have to say it is very satisfying killing someone just as their first immortal pops and you KNOW what build they were planning on doing.

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