No Offracing Allowed

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Finding a way to play other races without tanking MMR. Sounds like a good idea. Thumbs up!
11/01/2012 03:40 PMPosted by WhyLater
Unranked matchmaking does not accomplish this as it currently is, because your MMR is still taken into account. So if I play Protoss ranked and Terran unranked, my unranked opponents will still be matched to my Protoss skill level.

Good point, and well said.

Perhaps Blizzard could implement separate MMRs for each race ONLY for Unranked? I think that could work well. There's a lot of potential for things we could accomplish with the Unranked Ladder.

I think that Ranked should stick to one overall MMR though.
I personally don't have a problem with that. If I offrace I want to get my offrace to my current skill level. Playing against people better than me helps me to do that. Winning isn't important. It's unranked for one, two, you're doing it to get better. The second you start winning is when you know you can start thinking about taking your "offrace" to ladder.
"Perhaps Blizzard could implement separate MMRs for each race ONLY for Unranked?"

Is Unranked still going to show rather you are Silver, Gold, Plat, etc with your offrace... since it's unranked?

Anyway that it gets implemented would be nice.
I hit my goals as Zerg, hit 1000 wins and played consistently at a Diamond level, so I switched to a new race. It has been over 3 weeks, over 100 games, many many hours watching VODs and researching, and it is still frustrating as hell playing poorly matched opponents.

As an off-racing player the single battle, no coming back, flow of the game is exceptionally frustrating. The dumbest mistake allows a player of inferior skill to win the game. Learning a new race requires forgetting macro focus and turning attention to exploits- hard to hold builds. If you do not know how to defend a 4-gate, a canon rush, a roach ling bust, or a proxy barracks then you will fall well below your macro/micro skill.

Believe me, I considered buying another account just to learn a new race. Lets be honest here, that is preposterous! So here I am, waiting for the matchmaker to give me some opponents that can help me learn my race rather than frustrate me. If I want to play Zerg again in WoL I'm forced to steamroll people for quite some time before I finally get an opponent worth playing.
What about playing against the computer? This would be very helpful in the begining; allowing you to learn macro mechanics, playstyles, and timings (would be based on the current metagame, not the comp) without tanking your ladder points (or wasting other players' time, if that is one of your concerns).

The macro stuff can pretty much be perfected against the AI, since you can benchmark against yourself and it doesn't matter what your opponent is doing. For timings and builds however, you would need a human opponent to truely test them (along with your crisis management). In which case you have the same three options stated in the OP, plus the unranked ladder. However, at least you are comfortable playing a macro game by that point. You now need to figure out what the appropriate responses are to what your opponent is doing and what timings work or not. It will still be rough, but not as bad as starting on the ladder to begin with.

Of course, of all the options stated in the OP, I'd definitely go with the third one (playing customs with players you "hunt" down). If you can get on voice-chat with someone, it's really easy to discuss builds, compositions, and weaknesses as long as they're willing to play.

So; viable option or not? Try it and find out.

As always, god luck and have double the fun!
I dono... playing people better than me isnt that big of a deal.... Dont we all do that daily?

Dont we all tell 'bronzies' who complain they are facing 'smurfs' or players 2-3 leagues above them that 'playing people better than you makes you better'? Why is that mentality lost when a different MMR for an 'off race' idea is presented?

Are we that afraid to lose?

Why should blizzard and lower league players have to pick up the slack for those who are afraid to drop in rank, unwilling play custom 1v1 games, or gather some friends to practice with?
Ok, there are workaround to this problem. You CAN pay more for a second ladder, you can ruin your current race to switch races, or you can hunt down opponents yourself. The point of this thread is that a game is much more attractive if you do not get anxiety when trying to explore the game fully. It becomes a chore to play, and so people will not tell their friends to buy the game, people will not be excited to watch eSports.

There are multiple solutions to every problem and this thread is trying to find one that will create a better atmosphere and community. I am actually dreading the idea of laddering because I don't want to be destroyed by people who are far better than myself. I only play the game for single player, so I can not recommend it to anyone who plays multiplayer.

It is true that buying a smurf account supports blizzard, this is rewarding a bad product. I believe that creating a better ladder product that encourages playing as multiple races would increase sales. It is true that smurf account buyers would feel cheated. There are ways of creating a new matchmaking system that would preserve some of the reasons to smurf. Point is, a large company like Blizzard should be able to find a solution to allow players to play multiple races.

In HotS a leveling system has been introduced that would encourage players to play multiple races. People will still feel the pain of switching races unless we have a MMR for each race option. Playing Random is not a good solution because people often have a favorite race, or race they play best at OR BOTH! Blizzard is working to provide a better atmosphere and I think the system I imagined on page 4 of this thread would be a good staring point for improving the ladder system, while maintaining the current system's strong points.

We don't need more half-assed semi-solutions. I would gladly pay a monthly subscription for this service, but I do not think that doing so is required. It should take up almost no server power, just 3 or 4 extra bytes per account (3 numbers). Blizzard's team should be able to do this. Please, brainstorm ways to fix the ladder and draw Blizzard's attention.
11/01/2012 03:40 PMPosted by AscendedOne
Blizz could have 3 different MMR ratings for protoss/zerg/terran.

what about random?
If anyone has beta access, please support this idea in the beta version of the thread (titled the same) as that has the best chance of getting an official response.
posted by Flare
Would it be fair for people who paid money for smurfs?

Wouldn't Blizzard rather people buy multiple accounts?

If you really enjoy the game, then the $40 isn't that much for the time and satisfaction you get. Starcraft 2 really does replace other games (or hobbies) you would end up spending much more money for smaller amount of time they provide, so with that perspective the $40 is very little in the end. Although upgrading multiple smurfs could be quite painful when HotS comes out. It would be cool to have a discount for people who own 1 account to buy another, but that goes back to the first and second question.

I felt Flare's argument deserved to be directly addressed by me. I will answer with two counter-points.

1. Buying multiple accounts is counter-intuitive to the new Leveling system. This system is encouraging offracing on one account, but the MMR system discourages offracing one one account, even with unranked as it currently is (as I've already explained). The new system wants you to put all your stats onto one beautiful chart so you get a one screen snapshot of your player progress as a whole. To go along with this system would synergize with the development of the game.

2. The atmosphere of the community is against the mindset of having to buy multiple accounts. Look at what's been happening. We've had the storm of fear saying "Starcraft II is dying" and then the great many people calling out for Starcraft being "free to play." While I'm not for the free-to-play movement, I am definitely not for having to buy multiple accounts either. When someone buys HotS, they should get everything. All these great new features and complete freedom to offrace at their will without dealing with all these negative, fun-killing inconveniences.

That's it in a nutshell. This is the direction the design of the game is already going, and it's what the community wants.
Offrace in 2v2 3v3 4v4?
11/02/2012 09:07 AMPosted by Crushface
Offrace in 2v2 3v3 4v4?

My response? Why are we allowed to offrace in team games but not 1v1, which most people consider to be the most important aspect of the game?
Gotta be proactive and join a community. A lot of good players hang out in Diamond+ Practice channel on NA, get practice partners there while you're waiting for improvements.

I completely understand what you're saying though. And to reinforce the problem, even custom games against high level players don't go the same way they do on ladder, so custom matches aren't a good substitute even if you happen to get matched against the same level player as you are.
11/02/2012 09:19 AMPosted by Terransaurus
+1 to you Doncroft, but Blizzard has never taken this consideration serious before... so I doubt they will treat it any different now.

A year ago, I would agree with you, but if ever was the time to push for this, it is certainly now. I've never seen them more open to direct community feedback.

Also, see my addressing of Flare pointing this out near bottom of the OP.
I've mentioned this a number of times - finally a post where ppl have noticed it.

All they have to do is give a hidden MMR for unranked matches.

Having a race-based levelling system with a different level for each race, It makes so much sense to implement it. At least in unranked so it doesnt need UI cahnges.
11/02/2012 09:33 AMPosted by Terransaurus
but if ever was the time to push for this, it is certainly now. I've never seen them more open to direct community feedback.

They've listened to community feedback on things like balance or how a unit was boring, but this is entirely different.

When it comes to thousands of accounts not being sold because of a change they decide to implement, even if say Rock likes your idea, I can see their upper management saying "No".

I have my doubts, but I'll be interested to see a Blue response (if or when that even happens).

Edit - Prove me wrong Blizzard.

I respect your cynicism and the reason it exists, Terransaurus, but look at what's happening right now. Leveling. Clan support. Vastly improved UI. Unranked ladders. Time and time again, I heard people say Blizzard would never do these things. But the debacle of Diablo III countered by the endurance and dedication of the Starcraft community vs the current rampant growth of LoL and Blizzard's apparent new approach have given me "a fool's hope."

In any measure, I appreciate your support, and I hope to help breach that callous of yours and, with the rest of the community and Blizzard, build a brighter and better tomorrow for the future of our game.
Would it be possible to use this same system for people who play random? For example, if I started a match finding process as random, as soon as I press "Find Match" it would decide which race I will be and then proceed to find another player whose skill is based on the race it chose for me initially. That way it won't match me as Protoss against someone who is at my Zerg skill level, or vice versa.

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