when you 15 hatch and he 10 pools you...

Zerg Discussion
what do you do?
What i usually see is at the last second, 2-4 lings and 5 drones come down to defend the hatch. What other people do is immediately take gas and cancel the hatch at the last second, and just go from there.
So yea... what do you do?
uh dont 15 hatch lol.. Idra does 15 pool 15 hatch on maps where he thinks z will 10p. You might need to pull some drones when your first pairs or lings pop
defend the hatch...seriously dont base your builds off of what idra does. hes like the last pro you should be copying...
Idra is right "this guy is terrible". Dont listen to him. If you like idra try to be just like him. Remember to have good game awareness, macro and comment on how terrible your opponents are. Type things to them so they are aware of just how bad they are. Tell them their strategy is dumb. Tell them they are terrible, etc. thats really the key to making them feel bad about themselves. You might not win, but you'll be just
Like Idra! Don't ever change Idra. We love you!
I default to 12/10 over-pool, 14 gas, 19 hatch, 2 gas drones back to minerals @100, baneling nest @50 vZ these days. Holds 10 pools, punishes hatch-first, just safe all around.
I cancel if the expo is still building, switch to rush mode, get roaches, kill him.

It sets you back 100 minerals give or take, but if you haven't made any lings, or lost anything but the drone, you should be able to roach up quicker, and go do some real damage to his base, kill his queen, drones, etc.

Two spine crawlers in the right spot and a queen can defend while you rush, but usually I run into his second wave, speedlings usually, on my way to his base and eradicate them.

And if he does have speedlings, I'm pretty sure I'm going to out roach him, but even a pitched battle will usually set him back further than me, and I can send hydra in the second wave - by then he's making spines, lol

I'm not saying it's the best way, and it depends - if the base looks savable, I'll send whatever I can spare, get spines asap, but otherwise, either way I clearly need get some kind of defense before I expo, so...

If it's just a couple I might defend, but I usually don't see it that often, haven't even been 6 pooled for ages, I'm pretty good at beating that with minimal losses.
If you 15 pool, and they 10 pool, you *must* pull at least half of your drones and attack at your expansion if he is trying to force a cancel. Don't keep fighting, but stall until zerglings are out. You should be able to hold a 10 pool without losing more than 1-2 drones max or you will be very far behind. If he skips your expansion and goes for drones, defend it like any other early pool.

But if you are going to cancel, wait until the VERY last second, but you should be able to save. If you have to cancel you are going to be behind. You must be weary of any sort of speed / baneling follow ups that can come after a 10 pool.
you dont engage on creep. run your lings and drones to your natural and mine as much as possible and make as much lings as you can until your pool gets destroyed. It doesnt matter, you just need time on your side.

I had another masters zerg go 10 pool drone all in + a spine i believe. I went 15 pool into 15 hatch. I was able to bide time, pick off any straggling zerglings/drones there may have been.

I won that match losing only 3 drones.

Theres a guide somewhere for this, but essentially thats what you do.
11/19/2012 04:51 AMPosted by Chris
defend the hatch...seriously dont base your builds off of what idra does. hes like the last pro you should be copying...

Idra has gotten really good recently I hear actually.

and Im no zerg player but Im pretty sure you should be going pool before hatch as standard in ZvZ
It's generally a BO loss, but you're supposed to cancel your hatch in order to throw down your pool immediately.

Also, a response that has worked for NesTea is to actually let the hatch finish, run around in circles with your units while making 2 spines at your natural, and then just sacrifice your main and go to your nat when they're about finished.
Actually you have to lose 4 drones to a 10 pool while going 15h in order to actually be behind.

15p 16h is a good opener on 2 player maps on ladder where cheese BS is fairly common. As long as you know how to micro your drones you should be fine.

You will still be ahead even if he forces a cancel on your hatch because you have had so many more drones than him. The key is to drop the hatch again as soon as you've forced him back. Unless he is going all-in 10p with speed then your speed should finish first and you can start putting the pressure back on him however you are most comfortable doing so.
That's like asking:
"what do you do when you miss the busl"

"you get there earlier the next day"

so, the answer to your question
"you dont 15 hatch. There is no reliable answer to ur strat, cuz it's a gamble especially since not only is ur pool after 13, but you went hatch first."

I would try the sparkypop 8 pool. Invented by me. The difference between this cheese and others is that you have better econ on 7 drones and you rally outside their base until you get 10 lings. then attack. real effective. GL HF
i just get paranoid and 13 pool
edit: just saw OP is masters. quit trolling, fool.

there are some terrible suggestions in here. counter lings with roaches? rally lings outside of base wasting harrass time for no reason? 12/10 pool after yoy cancel a 15 hatch... how dafaq does that work? do you just kill off 3 drones?

15 hatch is what you are doing. Don't cancel it, otherwise you are sacrificing way too much and by all rights should be behind all game. Either learn to go with flow and fend it off or if you really cant get it to work then change your strat. drones should be enough to get you through it until your pool finishes.

The main things i think could help are:
pool straight after hatch
choose between spines or lings. trying to do both is inefficient.
queens at both hatches should be affordable by the time pool finishes.
need to learn when to continue dronning. this is the hardest step but by this point you should have an overlord at their ramp to count the lings coming out. if you defend an overcommitted 10 pool its an autowin.
unless you really need to, NEVER TAKE ALL OF YOUR DRONES OFF THE MINERAL LINE. its a really bad habbit a lot of people i see still do. lost mining time is just as damaging as dead drones.

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