To toss, on how to get an imba comp vs Z late

General Discussion
11/17/2012 11:26 PMPosted by Defenestratr
Seriously, what are you talking about? Can you actually point out some games where toss uses recall to do anything in recent times?
Did you actually read my post? Looks like no.

I already explained where I am coming from. Go back and read the post. If you DO need "proof" I point you to Parting, LiquidHero, CreatorPrime and SKTRain (now) that routinely play this way.

99.9% of statistics (stated) are made up, fyi.

11/17/2012 11:26 PMPosted by Defenestratr
I watch a tremendous amount of pro PvZ and I play a lot of it as well at a masters level.
Probably not enough. I watch "tremendous amount of pro PvZ" too.

11/17/2012 11:26 PMPosted by Defenestratr
If you don't believe me, just ask Mr. Bitter, who said himself that he'd like to see more recall play.


11/17/2012 11:26 PMPosted by Defenestratr
Casters make a lot of miscalls,
Nuff said.

11/17/2012 11:26 PMPosted by Defenestratr
And of course drop play is common; but how often do you see drop play with 1/2 warp prisms AND small armies being sent to deal with a 4th/5th base?
... All the time.

And the damage Killer took from all the drop/harass play means he could not have resupplied his army, which he probably would have lost if he had gone for a frontal attack.

#20
14 minutes ago
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That's why the prism harass is done. It buys time as it puts a maxed out Zerg in a position to either defend his infrastructure/tech to MEET Protoss in a direct fight to win, or he loses the former and takes a huge risk with a frontal attack. Without this, Protoss has NO WAY to force a maxed Zerg to stay back WHILE getting the right unit comp. It is physically impossible.
Did you actually read my post? Looks like no.


You either didn't read what I was originally referring to or you just ignored it. Maybe you should read?

I'm not really sure what you're arguing. But you saying that I'm just talking about a toss doing warp prism harass and then moving in with his entire army at the front means you're an idiot. Rain clearly does his multipronged attacks differently from the other players you mentioned. If you actually watch the games, this is blatantly obvious.
11/18/2012 01:17 AMPosted by Defenestratr
You either didn't read what I was originally referring to or you just ignored it. Maybe you should read?
You come to me and say that Protoss apparently does not use MS recall according to you, and I tell you that it happens based on the many Protosses I watched myself + pros that have used this tactic + the fact that my observations are on ladder (obviously implying there isn't a specific replay game to offer for ladder, but that VODs of pros exist), immediately tells me that you did not read my post and cherry picked the one argument that caught your attention.

11/18/2012 01:17 AMPosted by Defenestratr
But you saying that I'm just talking about a toss doing warp prism harass and then moving in with his entire army at the front means you're an idiot.
I think the brainless fool here is you; you assume wrongly.

11/18/2012 01:17 AMPosted by Defenestratr
Rain clearly does his multipronged attacks differently from the other players you mentioned.
Not really. He just does it more.

11/18/2012 01:17 AMPosted by Defenestratr
If you actually watch the games, this is blatantly obvious.
Well congratulations! You just "discovered" a Protoss that uses multi-pronged warp-prism harass + small guerrilla attacks from proxy pylons. Here is another one you might like:

LiquidHero.

Look him up.
11/18/2012 01:17 AMPosted by Defenestratr
Did you actually read my post? Looks like no.


You either didn't read what I was originally referring to or you just ignored it. Maybe you should read?

I'm not really sure what you're arguing. But you saying that I'm just talking about a toss doing warp prism harass and then moving in with his entire army at the front means you're an idiot. Rain clearly does his multipronged attacks differently from the other players you mentioned. If you actually watch the games, this is blatantly obvious.


Have you never seen liquid hero? Or whiteRa? Or Huk? or most other protoss? They all drop all around the map, Especially hero. Hero makes the weirdest strategy up but there are a ton of players that do that. they absolutely HAVE TO in order to slow down Infestor/broodlord
That multi prong drop harass can be countered by the Zerg by not investing everything into broodlord infestor. The Zerg keeps a part of their army in zerglings and roaches to respond quickly to drop harass. A few spines are also built to buy time until zerglings reach them.

The Zerg does not need all their supply in infestor and broodlord as even a much lower supply infestor broodlord army can defeat a Protoss higher supply army.

Stargate play in the late game is extremely difficult to pull of due to two major problems. In the late game armies are at 200 supply and in order to start transitioning into carriers you need to clear up that supply. This is actually really difficult to pull of because 1 carrier takes 2 minutes to build and come online. If you do trade and say start 4 carriers at once you will not have an army for about 2 minutes. You will be down in 24 supply during the start of the carrier transition. During this time you can try to clear up even more supply with harass but this weakens your main army even more making the Protoss EXTREMELY weak to a broodlord infestor push.

In addition to this it is extremely expensive to do this transition and requires certain parts of the game to go a specific way where a broodlord infestor army does not require an equally high economy. You only need your initial 3 bases to pull off broodlord infestor. A carrier transition requires 5-6 bases to have been taken.
Arguments without examples are worthless. None of you who say people play similar to Rain's style have provided one VOD or replay.

Hero's style is very different from Rain's. I'm not talking about proxy pylon/warp prism harass. There's a difference. It looks like you are just too stupid to know the difference; keep on whining.
Arguments without examples are worthless. None of you who say people play similar to Rain's style have provided one VOD or replay.

Hero's style is very different from Rain's. I'm not talking about proxy pylon/warp prism harass. There's a difference. It looks like you are just too stupid to know the difference; keep on whining.


its pretty much the same because there is only one viable style vs zerg lategame, attack everywhere while you stockpile templar,collosus, air or mothership and a buttload of archons

rain does the same thing, hero just doesn't transition as well into the late game, which is probably why it seems different to you

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