Advice on a ZvT Opener

Zerg Discussion
Hi everyone,

I faced a terran the other day who opened with one base hellion viking, into eventual expand.

The vikings knocked out a good number of my overlords (supply issues there), and I lost any possible chance of scouting.

The only thing I saw was: a growing number of hellions (at least 8 or so), and a growing number of vikings (around 4ish).

Eventually he pushed into me with a good 14 or so hellions + 6-8 vikings

I had no clue on how to respond.

At the end I needed to just make roach, HOWEVER, at the moment, i was concerned about banshees. What if he made banshees? lings weren't an option, and lair was hardly an option because of the gas intensive builds that come out of it.

My main question, is how do you scout something like this? How do you scout when you have nothing to scout with?

Thanks everyone, your awesome.
Queens and a couple spore crawlers to protect your mineral lines until you can mix in some hydras to lock it down.
By the time he has vikings, you should have mutas or hydras. Very easy counter.

My advice, get some anti air and make those vikings ground. If they still follow, surprise attack with banelings burrow.


You would have to know that this build was happening quite a bit beforehand. however, all my scouting was essentially blocked.

My questions being, how can you scout this build, and know that this is what he is going for? We're basically looking at a 9:30 timing here, where overseer scout would be too late.

if course im open to suggestions if anyones faced a similar issue.
As the 'reactionary race,' we do like to wait to build any units until we see that they won't just be strongly countered. But if you can't scout anything, I think you just have to build something. As you said, lings/bling are out because of too many hellions, you aren't in a comfortable enough position to go heavy lair tech, so by process of elimination, just build those roaches.

Yeah, if he builds a lot of banshees, you won't be able to attack very well, but you should be able to hold them off with queens and spores until lair, as mentioned. You could also make him pull banshees back by attacking with roaches if you want, buying you more time, because none of his other stuff will stop them, and you may get some damage in anyway.
put a roaches warren down at 6 minutes if you scout any hellions will avoid this entire problem :) then if you have to make roaches u can do so far before banshees are a problem, and you can add mutas (if you have 3 base to his 2) to counter banshees and most probably win the game via economic damage or if he deffends well with turrets stop muta production immediately

if you scouted he's meching with mutas make roaches / get upgrades and infestors

if you scouted bio get around 10-14 mutas to stop drops, and to kill tanks and medivacs if you engage armies, then make ling baneling. Try not to lose any mutas unnessarily if so just remake them.
thanks guys, some good answers. I just need my thinking to be steared in the right direction and this certainly helps. I will try and keep this in mind again when im in the dark.
When you scout a terran on one base, just play it safe on 2 bases. 2 base muta play would have shut that down pretty hard.
By the time he has vikings, you should have mutas or hydras. Very easy counter.

My advice, get some anti air and make those vikings ground. If they still follow, surprise attack with banelings burrow.


You would have to know that this build was happening quite a bit beforehand. however, all my scouting was essentially blocked.

My questions being, how can you scout this build, and know that this is what he is going for? We're basically looking at a 9:30 timing here, where overseer scout would be too late.

if course im open to suggestions if anyones faced a similar issue.

this is what? 1 port/1 factory, both with reactors? or 1 reactored factory, 2 ports. either way you know he isnt going to have a good number of banshees if you scouted no tech lab on the port(s) earlier and I don't see how he could stop you completely from scouting with lings if you really wanted to. beyond that, do you actually even need roaches to hold this? I would think you could just hold with 6ish queens and ling/bane/muta your way to a free win off the hold. no reason you couldn't have had lair by 9:30.
I think Sandcastles had the best answer. Although vikings beat mutas in equal numbers, they are not as versatile a unit. 2 base muta should have decimated this build and avoided the banshee issue.
6 queen opener, make a single spine and wall with your evo's. Roach warren when you see 8+ hellions. Transition into infestor or muta and win.

Personally if I saw 2 vikings on the map early I'd go muta, because he shouldn't be making more than 1 viking. If they are investing into more they want the anti-air of the viking and are likely skimping on thors.

Vikings only beat mutas in very small numbers, the splash damage from mutas significantly swings the fight in numbers greater than 3. There's a reason they shouldn't make more than 1 viking in the early/mid game.
Hi everyone,

I faced a terran the other day who opened with one base hellion viking, into eventual expand.

The vikings knocked out a good number of my overlords (supply issues there), and I lost any possible chance of scouting.

The only thing I saw was: a growing number of hellions (at least 8 or so), and a growing number of vikings (around 4ish).

Eventually he pushed into me with a good 14 or so hellions + 6-8 vikings

I had no clue on how to respond.

At the end I needed to just make roach, HOWEVER, at the moment, i was concerned about banshees. What if he made banshees? lings weren't an option, and lair was hardly an option because of the gas intensive builds that come out of it.

My main question, is how do you scout something like this? How do you scout when you have nothing to scout with?

Thanks everyone, your awesome.


Was this a game yesterday (Saturday Jan 26?) Because I SWEAR yesterday was "weird day" on SC2... I played game after game against some WEIRD freaking strats.

As far as his strat, that's a pretty late and *weak* timing for 9:30, if he goes for that he's got no tanks, and I don't care if he's got banshees. Roaches are good vs just about anything Terran has except tanks, so you finish droning at 8 minutes because he hasn't done crap yet, can't get any scouting, just get active with your go-to units. $4000 worth of roaches don't care if there's anything less than 4 or 5 banshees flying overhead, they'll waste the terran's base.

Basically I'm saying "He did something stupid, spam mass roach and go kick his face in." And if you have extra larva and minerals, throw in some lings for good measure.

If he has tanks, he can't do much with them near your base yet, and you'll have time to tech up or get a bunch of lings to clean it up, and mutas to handle vikings..

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