Theorycraft : DT Robo in Hots

Protoss Discussion
Hello, I am your not-so-friendly, neighborhood raging low-mid masters Protoss and I wanted to pose a question. I've been developing a Dark Templar + robotics build in Heart of the Swarm based upon a couple of ideas.

1. DT shrine costs less gas, so there may be something you can do with the extra gas.
2. Develop a method for being safe against an opposing player's DTs.
3. Not be so overly invested into tech that you have to do too much damage to make this work.

I played someone tonight in a PvP with this build and managed to hold a warp prism 4 gate.(and eventually win.)He told me afterward that it was a BS build and that it made no sense. His argument is that it is essentially an autoloss against 3g robo, and very bad at minimum against stargate.

So I'm curious if anyone thinks this is viable or could be viable in PvP.
dies to stargate oracle/void play, which a lot of people do.
01/29/2013 08:49 PMPosted by Wingblade
3. Not be so overly invested into tech that you have to do too much damage to make this work.


This one seems inconsistent with your plan. To me you have invested a lot into tech you may not be able to do anything with. It depends on what order you open with and what tactics you're using.

I feel like if you're hitting your DT early enough, it's actually fine against stargate. Is it the oracle that has detect now? Can't remember. But regardless, you can probably punish a player who is cutting corners to get his air out super early.

What is your plan vs robo? I believe your opponent may be right about the 3g robo. While DT shrine is cheaper, it's only by 100 gas and the mineral cost is up by 100. Then you have the DT's themselves which are very costly. Turning them into archons vs immortals will do you little good. And if they have an observer, your DTs are basically expensive zealots that soak up less damage.

I wouldn't say this build is garbage. Too early to tell, perhaps it will be more useful when the metagame shifts around a bit as it invariably will. Don't listen to the haters, keep tweaking it and maybe you'll find out it's way better than you thought or perhaps that you were wrong :)

Edit: HelloKitty has some serious credentials and I'm inclined to agree with him, but I still think you should develop this build a little more and find out if there is a way to make it more well rounded.
01/30/2013 01:56 AMPosted by hellokitty
dies to stargate oracle/void play, which a lot of people do.


But doesn't that force the oracling player to leave his detection at homes and not in the middle of the map trying to do damage. Plus, doesn't that leave the opposing player short on units to punish an expo from me because of his investment into void rays, both in cost and supply? If he counter all-ins on one base, he won't have that much gas, and probably have a pretty high zealot count, which I can make archons to deal with.
..... you're missing the point, oracle kills probes fast(you have no answer), they can make a second one upon scouting your dark shrine for detection, and 1 sentry to forcefield ramp. and they can expand faster than you even after making 1 void ray
01/30/2013 12:20 PMPosted by Wingblade
But doesn't that force the oracling player to leave his detection at homes and not in the middle of the map trying to do damage.
No because the Oracle will hit before DT, and the SG player, if he is playing smart will FF his ramp to prevent DT to come in long enough for a new Oracle to be chronoed out, which = no DT harass for you while you lose a butt-ton of probes (for that early stage), followed by a Void/Oracle/gate push which will kill you thereafter, especially if he just walls off... In either case, you will die or be far behind and die later.

I should note that the Oracle player will also see exactly what you're planning and will have stalkers patrolling his main, but he will also have his nexus cannon + Oracle detection ready well before you perform a drop. I mentioned FF the ramp to reinforce the fact that Oracles will hit much sooner than your DT, and if you try to harass with DT by ground before your prism is ready, a smart player who has seen your tech will immediately hold position on his ramp and have sentries ready to FF your DT out while having stalkers patrolling the edges of his base. My original paragraph above was not explicit enough on that.

DT/Robo works WELL against someone who tried to 2 gate Nexus or 3 stalker rush into nexus because he will not have enough gates and will be behind in his robo tech which makes dropping DT and an Immortal/sentry defense ideal while you drop a nexus with 2 DT running amok in his base and disrupting mining, killing pylons, sentries etc.

I love using DT/Robo, but sometimes I try to be a little more greedy by adding a Nexus after Robo right-away with barely any defense units which makes me weak to an all-in counter, but usually I find people more focused on trying to deal with the DT threat more than anything.

The moment they are stuck defending in their base, I can go up to Colossi or just go pure chargelot/Archon/Immortal into 3rd base and double stargate (if they're still alive haha).

Hope this helps your perspective on this strategy. It's a really cool opening to punish greedy builds, but it is not that strong vs tech builds. A "safer" iteration of this is to DT/Expand, then follow up with 2 base Prism/DT harass and a Zealot/Archon midgame.

01/30/2013 06:57 PMPosted by hellokitty
..... you're missing the point, oracle kills probes fast(you have no answer), they can make a second one upon scouting your dark shrine for detection, and 1 sentry to forcefield ramp. and they can expand faster than you even after making 1 void ray
This!

hahaha! You basically summarized what I wanted to say :D You're absolutely right. I have tried the DT/Robo against a Stargate with Oracle player and I would lose exactly because of this.

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