Protoss buff balance test map

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05/28/2013 09:50 AMPosted by Dayvie
As we've been saying many times before, our goal is still to make the game more dynamic and allow for more diverse action throughout the game. We feel the advantage of this is watching the same matchup over and over is a lot more exciting because you never know what you're going to get. If there's constant action throughout the game there are varying degrees of successes and failures each time which really shape up every game differently.

I hope you reach this goal. Because watching SC2 at the moment is like Street Fighter with only fireballs and roundhouse kicks.
This makes me so happy, Robo opening might be viable again =D=D=D=D=D=D
I hope this change works out because it's starting to look quite sad for protoss in the pro scene.

Must be super hard to balance things right now, two thumbs up for the development team!
I just thought of something! replace the warp prism speed upgrade with a new survivability upgrade called "Prismatic Phasing" (or something that's better, I don't really care). The warp prism could use this ability (while in flight mode) to "phase out" for 2 seconds making it either cloaked or invincible or both. It would be a neat survivability buff so that It wouldn't get shot down almost immediately every time.

I would prefer cloak since invulnerability would be broken versus turrets.
This is interesting change and may work out very well.
But come on, no zvt changes :(
I fear that this would decrease the popularity of Swarmhost play (a playstyle that isn't seen much aside from ZvP) and increase the popularity of mass muta (a playstyle that is already too common in all 3 match-ups). Fast dropships are a big reason why mutas are so common in ZvT.
so that we can be prepared with a patch if needed down the line.

I think a lot of people missed this part. Also I think people forgot about last time protoss buffs were introduced and down the line rejected due to shift in meta game.

So folks, save your qq and go test the patch.
Really great idea, it won't change winrate percentage much and it will benefit players with good micro and better multitasking. I like this for pvp a lot, because current robo openers are very defensive.
This won't make it live because Protoss are going to use this to add several new all ins to their arsenal. Macroing protoss have no reason not to turtle in for deathball plays so I don't see them opting to intenionally split up their army vs T. Basically, this won't work.
Well, the fast colossus drop will be very strong. But I don't see another problem with this change. A slight oracle's speed buff is maybe relevant as well.
I'd like to see an immortal upgrade.

Shields upgrade during combat. Possibly an active ability instead, shields get +1 reg per shield upgrade for X seconds.
I feel like giving them the speed upgrade is way too strong. You shouldn't affect the warp prism, it is fine where it is.

You guys haven't seen it often, but some players do warp prism tactics where they lift sentries into the main and forcefield you out of your base. They are free to kill your entire main, which will likely also be where all your tech is and a huge portion of your economy. There is literally nothing you can do when this happens unless you just happen to have a round of units coming out of your main. If you guys buffed the warp prism, be prepared to make a nerf for this.

sOs and Rain (off his Proleague record) been having tons of success as Protoss. As Demuslim has said, if at least one person is having success, then nobody has the right to complain. Same with Life at the start of hots.
Inb4 they implement this imbalanced change. I agree with a war prism buff, but implemented this way would be way too good. Perhaps reduce the speed a little?
Where do we find this map anyways?
Questionable approach, but absolutely understandable.
Terrible idea.

This would only buff the protoss early game and toss doesnt need stronger all ins. 100/100 is a small investment after the 10 min mark anyway.

When i look at the best protoss players i feel that they just play bad if you compare them to innovation/flash since they dont use the wap prism at all late game when in theory protoss is able to harass much better then terran players.

I mean how ofter do you see players fly around with 2 warp prism late game? That would wreck most of the terran players.
lawl warp prism with almost 3.5 perma movement speed early game imba as hell

protoss all-ins are already too strong against terran, yet this will just make them stupid strong yet barely effect zerg (protoss has more trouble with zerg than terran)

protoss is struggling because 1) swarmhosts are bs 2) the maps are terrible for protoss since protoss has no mobile way to respond to the flood of lings to secure a 3rd and 4th on most maps and insane surrounds that zerg/bio terran can get on these maps such as derelict
This is just a genius idea. I was JUST thinking that prism should start with the upgrade the other day. Good change and I hope we see some awesome prism timing attacks from this!

Also while you are looking at toss, maybe more acceleration on the oracle?


rejected due to shift in meta game.

They were rejected because forum whiners thought that oracle were OP, despite the highest level protoss not even building them. Oracle speed buff should be reimplemented. The only reason they might of not considered it is that proxy oracle is still popular and somewhat valid.
So, first of all, this will indeed buff all of the existing TvP all-ins involving warp prisms.

Second of all, has the balance team taken appropriate measures for TvP early game issues? In case these issues have not somehow reached blizzard here they are:

Early game TvP Balance Issues:
Right now the mothership core allows Protoss to essentially not ever take damage from any Terran harrass in the first 7-10 minutes of the game.

The problem? Protoss has 10+ different all-in and 1 base variations that can immediately win the game for the Protoss in the first 10 minutes vs Terran.

Something is out of line here with TvP early game. Terran has no way now to kill Protoss early game, allowing Protoss to be greedier with chronoboosting upgrades, as well as allowing Protoss to "reach lategame" much easier with advantages.

Why is this not currently being addressed? It is not only "foreign Terran noobs" that have issue with this, as many korean Terrans/teams have also seemed to express that there is an issue with TvP, specifically with the mothership core.

The mothership core 6-7 minute planetary fortresses per base is much like the queen buff you guys at blizzard had given in wings of liberty which allowed Zerg to suddenly be able to survive ALL forms of aggression and reach their broken "brood/infestor" much faster.

List of Protoss 1-base all-ins:
3 gate blink stalker into later expo -> invincible with mocore, also done faster with mocore high ground vision

4 gate blink stalker -> same as above, but more all-in

3 gate robo -> mocore
3 gate robo proxied variation
4 gate vanilla
4 gate vanilla with 3 proxied gateways
proxy oracle, can get a freewin
in-base fake macro toss with in-base oracle -> can get freewin, invincible to counter attack via mocore planetary nexus

DT opening -> can result in freewin
Proxy DT opening -> freewin or huge advantage
4 gate warp prism -> will be buffed with arbitrary warp prism buff being proposed
Fake all-ins into standard protoss macro + greed -> mocore makes P invincible here

The list goes on. The previous Terran all-ins that could do damage to protoss? All nullified by planetary nexus.

You, as a company, cannot legitimately and arbitrarily buff something like Protoss's warp prism until you balance out TvP early game issues so that the game is not so poker oriented and so the cost-risk values for each race are more brought in line with each other.

Protoss has various ways to immediately and outright win the game vs Terran, and Terran has no current retaliatory options due to the mothership core planetary nexus.

Any arbitrary buff Protoss on Blizzard's part without having identified and resolved the above balance issues is simply negligence on your company's part and a huge smack in the face to the community.

Please consult Terran korean pros as well as Protosses so that you guys understand the above balance issues that you currently have been ignoring or simply are not speaking of to the public due to the fervor of the previous "T OP" from the community.


also note: TvP past the mid-game is pretty much perfectly balanced. Only early game is a balance issue currently for Terran players due to the wide variety of 1 base all-ins Protoss can do to outright win the game or secure advantages that snowball into 3/3 chronoboosted upgrades vs 2/2 Terran.

My only suggestion to the balance team would be to remove the engineering bay requirement to construct a missile turret, as this helps alleviate issues of proxy oracles or random proxied dark shrines that can outright win the game with little to no effort.

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