Protoss buff balance test map

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LOL !

Protoss is very imba !

Blizzard, not buff protoss please !
David,
All I see this doing is increase the power of protoss allins which are farily powerful even now. Units that couple with a prism like zealots are only useful for harass after charge. DTs can be easily countered with detection. The units that can deal good splash like colossus/templars do little damage with a single volley to be useful in a drop.

Sometimes good harass units are those that one can use to harass effectively and then combine it up with their army later for some extra damage. Oracle is great at harass but not very good at being part of an army since it dies in 2 seconds. Medivac drops, roach/ling drops runbies etc. are good at harassing for that reason.

I think the problem with protoss as a whole is that there is little incentive to split their army up into smaller groups for harass till they get sufficient templars with storms. One easy way I think to do this is to change the colossus a bit. Here is what I feel should be done
- Reduce Colossus speed down to about 1/2 of what it is right now.
- Buff its damage output by 50%. It should essentially 1 shot marines and workers at that point.

What I am hoping this does is that it will make it a very good defensive tool allowing protoss to defend with lesser units, especially against terran drops. It will also be good at harassing couple with these speed prisms. However it should absolutely suck at marching all across the map in a deathball. For example if terran/zerg engage a protoss army in middle of the map they should be able to kite that army al the way across the map without much issue. I know this may open up a few timings and all that may need a bit of tweaking but I feel this is worth trying out on a test map.


You might say oh you can kite protoss all the way across the map. How many of us can do that, and yet maintain every single other macro function(building more production facilities, taking more bases, AND keeping all production ongoing) going? More realistically speaking, if you're gonna micro like MKP, your production has to suffer, no two ways about it. In fact for protoss that's a valid tactic - force the terran to consume his APM on micro instead of macro, and meanwhile you'll keep right on top of your own macro. Meanwhile the Terran's queued up units 5 layers deep in his barracks. He'll eventually die, because he is not gonna keep up with your warpgates.

If you want the collosus to one-shot marines(with combat shields) - this is not unfair, because the unit is supposed to splash and counter mass light units - HOWEVER in order to grant you this, the damage should be tweaked to favor anti-light damage, and should remain as-is against armored. You are on the right track for the movement speed downgrade, the collosus is the only siege unit with no setup time required AND can keep up with the core army.
Good idea, though it will push zerg even further towards going mutalisks in ZvP in order to effectively deal with drops, making the mutalisk zerg's best tech choice in ZvP, ZvT, and ZvZ. I think zerg could use a little diversity outside of mutalisks in their matchups.


That is honestly my number one concern. I can deal with the all in's I just would rather not be pushed into muta play every game
I don't get what your problem is. If you have watched any pro games lately, you'll see that toss is kinda underrepresented and that zerg is really good atm.
In response to OP...

Can upgrade overlord speed suck less then? Even with upgrade, overlord speed is 1.88. Medivac is base speed 2.5 and now Warm prism about ~3.4. These are all transport units and the fat overlord that spews poo isn't getting enough love.
I highly approve, this will bring back shades of the brood war shuttle/reaver micro with prism/collosi

this seems like a great idea it really does
Of course if this feels like a good direction after testing but feels like too big of a buff, we can also try a slightly increased movement speed on the unit while keeping the upgraded speed the same.

That sounds like a much more reasonable starting point than what you're herp-derping about right now.
I think it could be awesome.. and scary as zerg.. warp prison play especially with immortal all-ins are very hard to stop as it is .. idk maby a little tooo strong. but i agree protoss needs somethinng.

I think it should be with the oracle. nerf dmg a little bit and increase life/or armor. Protoss needs a fast harass unit thats not useless after 8 min mark. Oracles die to ez but also do to much dmg.. even it out with slightly less dmg and slightly more life/or armor and i think its exactly what protoss needs to give them a lil edge. as well as maby lil less gas cost because they are crazy expensive compared to zerg/terran harass units. (Muta,Ling,Hellion,Hellbat,Reaper)

and as someone pointed out, getting rid of reapers need for upgrade and seige tank and now warp prism, i think burrow should be standard (not an upgrade).. that would deffently allow and promote alot more fun play by zerg and interesting harass. Maby even Overlord speed increase.. or cost less.
When i look at the best protoss players i feel that they just play bad if you compare them to innovation/flash since they dont use the wap prism at all late game when in theory protoss is able to harass much better then terran players.


What theory is that?
I feel like balance test map aren't played enough... why not to create a separate ladder queue for "balance testing", just like for unranked ? Maybe more people would play it and it would be balanced matches, wouldn't that be better to figure out whether the changes are good or not ?


this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

im not taking my time, the time that i have anyway, to play this balance test map when I could be in ladder

and I'm a protoss player
I think a lot of people takes up a good thing and i will say the same thing, why not have a seperate queue for the unit test map? Then it will be more people playing it and it will be more balanced.
The changes that would probably make protoss aggressive surgical warp prism strikes + low unit defense work are these:
- add in the reaver
- add in the corsair
- possibly nerf mutalisks regen (not sure if this would be necessary)

Only the third would be balanced in this game.
The Reaver is a difficult unit to balance in this game, and it was only balanced in StarCraft Brood War because of the poor Scarab pathing. Reavers would not be balanced in StarCraft II.

Corsairs will never be back. Air-to-air splash damage is problematic because it allows a race to mass one unit to deal with all opposing air plays. This is why splash damage air units were removed, and never revisited.

The third choice is possible, and there are several ways to do this. The best way would be to implement the Mutalisk regeneration in a similar manner to the campaign where the regeneration bonus only takes effect if the Mutalisks are out of combat for a period of time.


Maybe...

I think the reaver could be balanced by keeping the projectile slow, and possibly nerfing the damage. Having too many in your army would result in a lot of overkill and wasted shots. It's not like the reaver has been tested at the high level of play.

Air splash does not shut down all air options. Corsairs were only good against zerg, and they only really killed mutalisks, and helped kill scourge if the protoss went carriers (and they also use disruption web). The thing about corsairs is that their attack did almost nothing to non-light units. They would lose easily to corrupters anyway.

I also meant for all three to be implemented. I also was just trying to say the problem with the warp prism. I like the buff, but it is not looking at the big picture that is protoss. It is just putting some white-out on that one little smidge in the corner.
Already deleted this !@#$ing game, do whatever you want to screw it more...Your on the right path
In response to OP...

Can upgrade overlord speed suck less then? Even with upgrade, overlord speed is 1.88. Medivac is base speed 2.5 and now Warm prism about ~3.4. These are all transport units and the fat overlord that spews poo isn't getting enough love.


Dude you have mutas. Zerg units are generally way faster than almost all of the other races units. Given that speed overlords aren't super quick, but they are still viable.
I just thought of something! replace the warp prism speed upgrade with a new survivability upgrade called "Prismatic Phasing" (or something that's better, I don't really care). The warp prism could use this ability (while in flight mode) to "phase out" for 2 seconds making it either cloaked or invincible or both. It would be a neat survivability buff so that It wouldn't get shot down almost immediately every time.

I would prefer cloak since invulnerability would be broken versus turrets.


god that's a beautiful idea

DAYVIE READ ^^^^^
what u guys don't seem to understand is that protoss is supply heavy; the warp prism can only hold 4 gateway units, so if we use it to warp more units, we have to let them die in our opponent's base.

That means the speed buff might make the match ups more dynamic but this type of harass will be extremely costly to protoss players.
Dude you have mutas. Zerg units are generally way faster than almost all of the other races units. Given that speed overlords aren't super quick, but they are still viable.


The closest analogues to mutalisks would be phoenixes and banshees, not speed prisms and medivacs.
But as it is, mutas are really good against toss already. What zerg needs is another aa unit other than mutas and queens that they can get about the time drops start to hit. Because if you are going to counter your enemies drops with only queens and static d, that is going to be a big investment that you can't bring with your army. Hydras are working kinda good as AA atm, but i think its too hard to get a clean transition into hydras early enough. This is going to be a hard one Kimmie.. :/
..... well, warp prism speed buff is ok... but nerf protoss dt harras late game if u do this...
This would be a great idea considering that protoss drops aren't that strong until the late game this would make protoss more aggressive in the mid game especially in pvt which is what we need.

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