-THE- 7 Roach Rush - 7 roach = 4:45

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EDIT: See page 5 for an abusive all-in variation on this strategy that toss is going to have a seriously hard time beating. Also, for any Plagiarism nuts it's already been talked into the ground, read the thread before you post.

I'm going to improve your game here with a strat I've been polishing for the last few weeks. What I'm about to say SOUNDS counter-intuitive but I promise you it works (and works -ridiculously- well). I will note that this is a strategy best suited for 1700 diamond and BELOW, and will not be incredibly successful above that level due to potential counters and more capable opponents. Your win rate will be -very- high and you will get -very- confident, but you will never really progress into high diamond using this as your primary strategy. YMMV!

The typical 7 roach rush done today involves a 13 pool, with a relatively slow attack and eventual expand. This is still a powerful attack, but it hits late enough that the enemy can get some significant defenses up.

There is a better way. How about I give you a build that gets your 7 roaches hatching at 4:45, and at 5:00 has enough cash for a quick expand, with enough cash for metabolic boost OR a lair at 5:10? This build not only gets roaches out FASTER then the 13 pool, but it does it with the same great economy. Again, counterintuitive, I know, but it -works-. You will have identical minerals/gas compared to a typical 13/14 pool AND faster roaches.

11/10 extractor trick
11/10 ol
spawning pool as SOON as overlord pops
drones to 15
extractor (3 drones on this as soon as it pops)
drones to 16
queen as SOON as spawning pool drops
18/18 build a roach warren when queen is around 50%-70% done (no later)
Overlord
Overlord
17/34 supply
Queen hatches (spit IMMEDIATELY on hatch)
7 roaches as SOON as the roach warren pops

All 7 roaches will be headed to your enemy base by 4:45, and you've got an expansion starting somewhere between 5:00 and 5:15 (depending on whether or not you choose to build an overlord to break your supply block).

Don't worry about scouting with a drone, use your overlords and process of elimination to find your enemy. I also make no attempt to deny scouting, I want my toss/terran opponent to see my roaches coming. It forces them into panic mode and usually results in an easy win - if not to the roaches, absolutely to my macro game that follows the roaches up. Deny scout if you'd like, but it's nearly impossible and not necessary.

You'll be inside your enemy base on between 5:20 and 5:30 depending on the map/rush distance with 6 roaches, with a 7th hitting a few seconds later. If he -DOES- have the power to stop you, simply pull back and macro up like a madman, keeping your 7 roaches for additional defense.

What's better, is you have a fast expand started at 5:00 and a lair starting at 5:10, so you've literally got the best of all worlds. You're ready for a tech switch to mutas to harass/contain/kill a toss who manages to hold you off, or to switch to mass baneling/ling vs a terran who holds you off with marauders.

This strat can even work effectively vs zerg - but in this case you keep the 7 roaches home to defend your ramp while you macro and tech up. They should hold off any early zergling and even baneling attacks, giving you time to get up the tech tree and win.

Here's a handful of replays to demonstrate this, most vs mid-high diamonds.

VS diamond Protoss
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/95791-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
VS diamond Terran
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/95793-1v1-terran-zerg-jungle-basin
VS platinum Protoss (I think)
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/95796-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
VS diamond Terran
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/95798-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis T
VS diamond Zerg
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=160520
VS Diamond Terran (with an early zergling to deny scouting)
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/97334-1v1-terran-zerg-metalopolis

Note that none of these games were pulled off perfectly, I am still working on all the timing of the build etc, I'm not used to it yet. If you do this build on your own just testing it and work things -perfectly- you have all 7 roaches hatched and running at 4:45, 300 minerals at 5:00, and 200 mins/100 gas at 5:10. Because these roaches are so much earlier then the typical 7 roach rush, you don't need a strong speedling followup, the roaches alone will meet minimum resistance and tear through his base. This is ESPECIALLY true vs toss. If you perform this build correctly you will very likely do damage, and even if he fends you off you can usually run your roaches back home and begin pure drone macro from your 2 bases, then transition into mid-lategame.

DISCLAIMER: You are a terrible terrible person if you use this strategy, but I forgive you.
All of the cerebrates were eradicated by Kerrigan around the Brood War era.

Just so you know ;)

[/nerd]
Just out of curiosity, since you are delaying droning up until pooling, why not do a double extractor trick for the extra drone? It shouldn't delay the build by more than a few seconds.
Just out of curiosity, since you are delaying droning up until pooling, why not do a double extractor trick for the extra drone? It shouldn't delay the build by more than a few seconds.


I tried it with the double extractor trick and it slowed down the roaches and wasn't as good economically.

You can test it if you'd like to make sure.

All of the cerebrates were eradicated by Kerrigan around the Brood War era.

Just so you know ;)


You know, they never really showed what happened to the cerebrate controlled by -you-. I know people at blizz have said "cerebrates are dead, get over it" but in game lore it's never actually explained where exactly your cerebrate died.

So I prefer to think he's alive and well, enjoying being his own little overmind.

All of the cerebrates were eradicated by Kerrigan around the Brood War era.

Just so you know ;)


You know, they never really showed what happened to the cerebrate controlled by -you-. I know people at blizz have said "cerebrates are dead, get over it" but in game lore it's never actually explained where exactly your cerebrate died.

So I prefer to think he's alive and well, enjoying being his own little overmind.


Lol, fair enough (apparently, in Starcraft: Hybrid, it is hinted that Kerrigan left the BW player character cerebrate alive to assist in the infested terran project)...

On topic, though, this build is sick...I'm gonna practice it up and see how it works :D
I love roaches
I love 7 roaches even more.
I love this 7RR build and I will try it.
Therefore, I love you, OP.
:)
Edit: this post contained incorrect info from a flawed test. Continue to use the 11/10 build posted above.
Interesting, looking forward to trying this tonight.
I'm going to improve your game here with a strat I've been polishing for the last few weeks. What I'm about to say SOUNDS counter-intuitive but I promise you it works (and works -ridiculously- well).


You know, the number one reason this will be effective against many Terran and myself is we are always assuming FE by default. Not all of us react properly to 1base pushes, especially 1base timing pushes. We'll get complacent when the proper counter is repeated scouting and multiple rax and tech labs. If I saw this and didn't assume my opponent was bad or FE, I'd have 3rax with 2 tech labs and 1 reactor at best. The 2 extra rax will be finished about the time your roaches pop on average so it's a tossup on who executed better (and I still don't know what you're up to, it's just a natural reaction to roach warren without many zerglings). The problem is I always research concussive shells so your push will be all-in.

A lot of times I've been hit with roach pushes, it managed to do damage and even take down my wall until I got enough to hit back. Sometimes I maange because I can reinforce while any reinforcements you have will take time (i.e. you're either resource or larva capped for say 30 seconds). I've had some close ones where they took down my wall and my dying rax and other rax each popped out a marauder to turn the tide. It takes proper micro - without concussive or the wall I'd lose.

That said, often when I saw this I kept searching for a hidden expansion. =) 1base roach is like 15% of the TvZ games I play, so I usually am more worried about hidden expansions and baneling mutas if not FE. I'm even worried about a roach fake to mutas, to force me to build marauders when mutas will come. I think the reason is that most roach builds don't work against a 2rax terran build, but a fast enough 7 roach has a good chance. So most people deal with the threat of mutas.

What you see at the top of the ramp is real important. If you see 3-4 marauders you might need to retreat because another one is probably building. This is assuming there is a wall to give the marauders extra range and your opponent knows how to micro the wall. But most terrans won't even have 2 marauders because of how fast 5 minutes is.
Nice! I'm gonna give it a try :D

You know, the number one reason this will be effective against many Terran and myself is we are always assuming FE by default. Not all of us react properly to 1base pushes, especially 1base timing pushes. We'll get complacent when the proper counter is repeated scouting and multiple rax and tech labs. If I saw this and didn't assume my opponent was bad or FE, I'd have 3rax with 2 tech labs and 1 reactor at best. The 2 extra rax will be finished about the time your roaches pop on average so it's a tossup on who executed better (and I still don't know what you're up to, it's just a natural reaction to roach warren without many zerglings). The problem is I always research concussive shells so your push will be all-in.

A lot of times I've been hit with roach pushes, it managed to do damage and even take down my wall until I got enough to hit back. Sometimes I maange because I can reinforce while any reinforcements you have will take time (i.e. you're either resource or larva capped for say 30 seconds). I've had some close ones where they took down my wall and my dying rax and other rax each popped out a marauder to turn the tide. It takes proper micro - without concussive or the wall I'd lose.

That said, often when I saw this I kept searching for a hidden expansion. =) 1base roach is like 15% of the TvZ games I play, so I usually am more worried about hidden expansions and baneling mutas if not FE. I'm even worried about a roach fake to mutas, to force me to build marauders when mutas will come. I think the reason is that most roach builds don't work against a 2rax terran build, but a fast enough 7 roach has a good chance. So most people deal with the threat of mutas.


A few things. Marauders CAN stop this rush, absolutely, if they are behind a STRONG wall. As the zerg, you will see this if you pop up the ramp and have multiple marauders hitting you (you'll quickly get a feel for what is "too much"). then simply back off. The T will not give chase, even if he does, it's easy enough to let one roach take the pain while the others get away.

If you in fact killed ALL the roaches, and attempted to counterattack (lets assume I pushed the attack and lost them all), let me remind you that I am -no longer supply blocked- thanks to the dead roaches! I can easily rebuild my forces. I also have an expo coming online and 2 queens to rapidly bring up macro. I will also IMMEDIATELY build a baneling nest and get working on that :).

I also have an overlord hatching by the time I'm hitting your base, so I'm not supply blocked then either and can easily build more units.....

The key here is I -want- you to commit to marauders early, then I smash you with 2 base ling/baneling/roach. My goal vs your marauders is not to win (although I will take the easy win when it comes), it's not even to kill anything. It's just to make you know you need to pump marauders to survive.


:)


I put you on the defensive, and you're forced into building a specific unit composition I can then work to counter. It works, it works extremely well.

It works better vs toss of course. I don't think there is ANYTHING a toss can do to stop this, period (well, barring maybe the SUPER LONG rush distance maps, but you can X those out so you don't have to worry about em). You are forcing toss into 1 base play with a COMPLETE gateway wall-off, or he dies/takes terrible terrible economic damage. The roaches finish them 80% of the time, the muta followup covers the remaining 20%. Almost all toss favor the single zealot gatekeeper strategy (with a single sentry). So you'll arive, snipe the zealot, get forcefielded/held out, then smash him when the forcefield wears off (before his 2-3-4 gates or first immortal have even warped in yet).
A few things. Marauders CAN stop this rush, absolutely, if they are behind a STRONG wall. As the zerg, you will see this if you pop up the ramp and have multiple marauders hitting you (you'll quickly get a feel for what is "too much"). then simply back off. The T will not give chase, even if he does, it's easy enough to let one roach take the pain while the others get away.

If you in fact killed ALL the roaches, and attempted to counterattack (lets assume I pushed the attack and lost them all), let me remind you that I am -no longer supply blocked- thanks to the dead roaches! I can easily rebuild my forces. I also have an expo coming online and 2 queens to rapidly bring up macro. I will also IMMEDIATELY build a baneling nest and get working on that :).


Yeah as I said don't attack against 3 or more marauders because a 4th is probably under construction and the wall will nullify about 2 roaches under proper micro. But 1 and even 2 marauders aren't enough because the wall will fall under proper micro. That wall won't nullify much without marauders dealing damage. The depot will be down before scvs can even reach the wall to repair, and 2 marauders with say 5-8 marines aren't enough against 7 roaches - the reinforcements will pop out and get mauled. 3 marauders with 4-6 marines might break even with the help of the wall but for the 4th marauder that's going to pop up and tip the balance (all micro being equal). The difference between 2 and 3 is big vs. 7 roaches, speaking from experience. Though I've won plenty with just 2 marauders due to bad roach micro and attack priority. In fact, most of the time micro and attack priority mattered a lot.

As for giving chase, I always give chase all the way to creep, knowing I have about 30 seconds against a timing push before a credible wave can counterattack. I typically get most or all of the roaches if I have both stim and concussive, which is my standard build. But if I only got concussive because I was teching up, I might only get 1 and 2 more roaches and return to base. Of course, once again most terrans are dumb and you'll do just fine with your counterattack.

Don't want to give away my playbook but Terran has the advantage at this point but you can still win because not everyone knows what to do or makes the wrong guess. The correct move is to scout for Lair or baneling nest, it tells you everything. But barring that you can just guess, and then it will come down to who has more skill.

The danger to Zerg here is you have to also guess what the Terran is doing. If you don't know, you might build a batch of units that hold back your econ while Terran techs or fast expands. Or not build units while Terran drops his 4th rax and you'll never catch up before he attacks. Both players must scout the other's plan, but Terran has an easier time here once you've revealed your hand with 7 roaches 1 base. The best you can do is hide your expansion and get your lair and tech on the expansion - which will work only because a lot of Terran are too cheap to scout/sweep both bases.
I'd like to see your build that has stim, conc shells, and 3+ marauders with marines by 5:30.

Roaches arent -that- slow, I can run them away while building a crapton of lings, they pop really quick and will meet us halfway to help push you back, you'll never kill all the roaches. As I said, this build is NOT supply blocked at 5:30, you have an OL popping, an expo about to finish, and 2 queens to macro up craptons of larva. You can easily followup with mass lings if necessary, and with a quick baneling nest you can roll right through the T who committed to marauders, or hold back and macro up to beat him in the expansion/cash game.

I can easily skip lair tech and plop down metabolic boost, starting at 5:15-5:20 or so, so my next attacks will be swift and strong...

In any event, marauuders CAN stop the roaches at the gate, but I think you're overzealous if you think you can chase them out and kill them :).
So, has anyone actually tried this build?

Whats the verdict guys, I want to hear success stories and enemy QQ's.
This is the standard 7RR build. I don't get it. I guess the extractor trick is different but thats been proven many times to be less economical.


The standard 7RR rush build I see is a 13 pool. This is a 11/10 pool after an extractor trick. Doing this build WITHOUT the extractor trick isn't even -close- to as good macro-wise.

Try it. Just try it. Don't listen to the voice in your head that says this wont work. I said this seems counter-intuitive. TRUST ME!

It works, it works too amazingly well. Play two games one right after another, in one do a regular 7RR rush without the extractor trick. In the other do it WITH the xtractor trick. Just try and match what I've done in the replay I just posted above. The extractor trick rush build will have the roaches out CONSIDERABLY faster, you can get a second queen at home and enough cash to build an expo immediately.

It gives you the best of all worlds - if you're open minded enough to try it.
So basically you traded the lings for drones?

What kind of crappy Terran doesn't immediately throw down a bunker or two as soon as they see the Warren?
I'd like to see your build that has stim, conc shells, and 3+ marauders with marines by 5:30.

Roaches arent -that- slow, I can run them away while building a crapton of lings, they pop really quick and will meet us halfway to help push you back, you'll never kill all the roaches. As I said, this build is NOT supply blocked at 5:30, you have an OL popping, an expo about to finish, and 2 queens to macro up craptons of larva. You can easily followup with mass lings if necessary, and with a quick baneling nest you can roll right through the T who committed to marauders, or hold back and macro up to beat him in the expansion/cash game.


Lol, it's surprisingly simple. I don't even have to have stim at 5:30. It often finishes researching just about when the battle's over, if not before. These days I usually get concussive first by default unless scouting says otherwise. I have a lot of experience with this, and there are only three situations that Zerg ever make it past halfway with roaches. Most common is we traded blows and I have just a few units chasing a few survivors. Another is they ran at first sight, in which case I'm counting the seconds to likely reinforcements but I can micro that. The least common is when I don't have concussive or stim at all, which is when I tried to do something unorthodox.

I'm not doing something out of my way build to do this, it's my standard build. My standard build is 1 marine, switch the 1st rax to tech lab. Maybe a lot of Terrans don't do this, but it's a no brainer to me because the tech lab is pulling triple duty early game. If you get a late tech lab, you are *forced* to build two tech labs to get both stim and concussive or you'll be in exactly the bind we're just describing. And I'm not talking about just roaches or even TvZ but all TvZ and TvP in my opinion should be 1 marine then tech lab for a default build. I do it blind.

The only thing that's weak against is proxies, which really aren't an issue if you know how to scout your opponent's base. If you can count, you don't even need to find the proxy to know if it's there.

Maybe that's what's happening. Maybe most Terran get greedy and don't convert their 1st rax after the 1st marine for some reason. I assumed most people do it because the pros do by default unless they tech.

The map also makes a big difference. I'll use xelnaga caverns as a typical example. I always control one watchtower, and always scout them more if they take out my scv with zerglings. Which in this case you can't even do. I also do something else which is very annoying and gets me extra scouting. The extra warning time makes a lot of difference in my micro, because my units are positioned up ramp to hit without getting hit and scvs come to repair. The scvs defeat the roach attack with proper micro no matter what you target. Target SCVs? that's 1 marauder and 1 or 2 extra marines (if I got reactor or not) reinforcing and my other units hitting your roach. Target anything else? You lose even faster.

I think this strategy is very effective and I'm going to try it (I'm plat on Zerg). Just wanted to say what the proper counter is..I don't know what other terran are doing but my standard build is a soft counter without scouting and a hard counter with scouting. But I don't think other terran are doing this.
i get 7 roaches out at 5 mins with the standard build order with ling speed and an expansion :s

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