Skytoss...

Zerg Discussion
So I just played this game against a lovely protoss chap who went skytoss against me and stomped my !@#$%^- inspite of my building hyrdalisks to try and kill him. Is there no way to beat skytoss by going hyras or should I just keep on going blind spire every single game like WoL?

http://drop.sc/345608

I am aware that the nydus play didn't work very well and was a complete waste, but I'm not sure what I could have done all that differently. Maybe if I sac'd an ovie sooner, I'd have had time to get up a critical mass of hydralisks, but it's still rather silly that pheonix hard counters both of the best AA units for zerg (hydra/muta) and VR's counter the other one (corruptor)
Thank you! I'll try the SH/Hydra/Viper style again later

Anyone else have any advice?
1. You will never reach hivetech, if you do the Protoss messed up bad.
2. Yes, mid-game allins are effective against Skytoss. In fact, they are practically the only thing that works.
3. Roach/hydra + viper and/or corruptor is suicide. You would have to play absolutely perfect AND the Protoss would have to mess up REALLY bad in order for you to win.

My suggestion - do a 7 roach rush or a baneling allin. In the current meta-game Protoss are super-greedy (eg: FFE into 1 gateway into double stargate), so it works very effectively. Free and easy win, and definitely counters skytoss.
Thanks. Not the answer I was hoping for, but thanks.

I find that SH gets eaten by air just because phoenix don't even need to kill them to put them out of commission for 10+seconds. Having 4 supply out of the fight per unit lifted really hurts when they're rocking 5-10 phoenix.

Really it seems that skytoss has a counter to everything zerg has.

B/Lings - Don't shoot up/Zealots
Roaches - VR's
Queen - Zealots/Phoenix
Hydras - Phoenix/VR
Muta - Phoenix (if en masse)
Infestor - Actually, not that bad. Fungal still works
SH - See above
Corruptor - VR (lol)
Brood/Ultra - Don't shoot up
Viper - Pull still works, I guess?
06/24/2013 11:24 AMPosted by LegionOfPie
Hydras - Phoenix/VR

Uhm.... VRs are only good against hydras once stacked in critical mass (12 or so) and then they die to fungals.

06/24/2013 11:24 AMPosted by LegionOfPie
Viper - Pull still works, I guess?

Strangely it does.
But yeah, spores + vipers + SHs to zone out HTs = best counter to .... Protoss :D
hii :)
is it ok if i ask a related question?

i was wondering if something like SH+Inf+Corruptor+Blord would work?
of course there will be a few ling+roaches there just in case needed, but if i remember correctly for instance soulkey used this army composition.

you can even start muta, add corruptor, slowly make your SH army, add infestors and finally morph only 5-6 Broodlords.

the goal is to deal damage with SH, intercept tempests with corruptors, deal with VRs with mutas, infestors and Blords are mainly there for the time that Toss is finally tired of losing units and decides to move out with his Coll+VR+HT+Archon army; usually a wise toss will try to get on the top of SH in the time period between 2 waves of locus spawn, Blords and infestors can buy enough time for the next wave etc

this is purely my own observation, is it a valid strat? :)
There's something I'm working on, I call it "The Wombo Combo" vs units that clump up easily (mainly Skytoss).

Fungal growth a good pack of air units and then blinding clound on them and kill with hydras, keep fungaling and blinding and they cannot attack while you can.
I'm just going Swarmhost+static defense+ corrupter and viper every pvz now. I perfer corrupters instead of hydras. Even with mass void rays or something like that, just pull them into tons of spores and your corrupters and its fine. I find hydras to be one of the least reliable zerg unit. You think they could easily take out an army but they just melt.
There's something I'm working on, I call it "The Wombo Combo" vs units that clump up easily (mainly Skytoss).

Fungal growth a good pack of air units and then blinding clound on them and kill with hydras, keep fungaling and blinding and they cannot attack while you can.


I don't think blinding cloud works on air, though.

Also, in a related question, does blinding cloud affect your own units if you stand in it?
06/25/2013 02:18 PMPosted by Goodtimes
Fungal growth a good pack of air units and then blinding clound on them and kill with hydras, keep fungaling and blinding and they cannot attack while you can


Blinding cloud doesn't affect air units if I'm not mistaken

06/25/2013 02:18 PMPosted by Goodtimes
Also, in a related question, does blinding cloud affect your own units if you stand in it?


No it does not
hii :)
is it ok if i ask a related question?

i was wondering if something like SH+Inf+Corruptor+Blord would work?
of course there will be a few ling+roaches there just in case needed, but if i remember correctly for instance soulkey used this army composition.

you can even start muta, add corruptor, slowly make your SH army, add infestors and finally morph only 5-6 Broodlords.

the goal is to deal damage with SH, intercept tempests with corruptors, deal with VRs with mutas, infestors and Blords are mainly there for the time that Toss is finally tired of losing units and decides to move out with his Coll+VR+HT+Archon army; usually a wise toss will try to get on the top of SH in the time period between 2 waves of locus spawn, Blords and infestors can buy enough time for the next wave etc

this is purely my own observation, is it a valid strat? :)


Infestors are nice but I think they are kind of a waste of supply with this strategy. You want vipers instead to pull the colossi forward and snipe them (really anything you can pull is good) tons of spores and spines and some swarm hosts. Broodlords aren't needed either unless you want to end the game quickly. If the toss pushes into all the static defense without the colossi you sniped the next wave will kill the army.
There is a breaking point in which hydras just aren't enough against the number of voids. At some point you will need other units.

If I was going hydras, I would be attacking in the mid-game to either kill him, or take out a ton of voids.

If you do let them get the a mass of skytoss, you will need infestors, probably 6-8 with full energy, a ton of static defense, and lots of corruptors with upgrades to take them out. The key is the infestors and the fungal. If Protoss had robotic apm, and could stop the Golden Armada from clumping up, I'm not sure Zerg could field a composition that can win.

Hydras seem like an option, but in the late game they are not.
Fungal growth a good pack of air units and then blinding clound on them and kill with hydras, keep fungaling and blinding and they cannot attack while you can


Blinding cloud doesn't affect air units if I'm not mistaken

Also, in a related question, does blinding cloud affect your own units if you stand in it?


No it does not

Firstly, it does not affect air units, nor spells (thus Widow Mines are immune)
Second, it does affect your own units.
Also note it affects buildings, like Planetary Fortresses and Photon Cannons.

As for Hydras, they're great against early air, but if the enemy Protoss gets Collosi/HT as well, you need support, preferably from Vipers/SH.

It takes 9 Fungals 33-34 seconds to kill Voidrays. It isn't really good for killing them, better for immobilizing.
SH+ corruptor/muta, basically you don't need any ground army than SH.plus infestor.
If you are going SH/Viper/Hydra, get like 4 infestors as well for fungaling the voids, and get a Sh1t ton of static defense in all your bases and around ur SHs for drops. Basically, you have to starve the toss out by denying him additional bases and taking all the bases on your part of the map. Prepare for an hour long game and Happy Laddering!

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