Positional Analysis in TvT Mech

Terran Discussion
Sup guys,

I'm noticing that everyone is going mech in TvT, and I feel kinda left out, as one of those guys who still does bio-tank. I have played a few games of mech. It was fun, until I realized my tanks were out of position to defend my third base, and I got steamrolled. The one part I don't like about mech is the immobility. It's a very slow army, and you constantly position and reposition. Also, you're !@#$ed if you get (doom) dropped.

Pretty much, what analysis is there on positioning in TvT. Like, how should you're tanks be spread out, and where, across 2-3-4 bases? Where are optimal positions to place units to defend a drop, but still have your main meching force in place, and not completely reposition your army? Before an engagement, what is the best way to sense an incoming army, and where should you siege up before an attack? Should you clump up tanks, or spread them far out? I know this is very map dependent, but just give me an example of one map to give me an idea.

Thanks!

from,

abHAT
Watch the WCS Semifinals between MVP and Innovation. All games were pretty much hellbat mech.

Key to mech is air control, must always have Viking to maintain air dominance. This prevents doom drop against bio and is great vision against the other meching player.
One thing to remember in TvT tank battles is that the tank positioning is much more different than if you were facing zerg/toss; in those matchups its better to walk the tanks forward and stagger them bit by bit; you NEVER want to do this as all your tanks will die due to the other guy attack moving his entire tank army through yours.

Mech play is also vulnerable to tech switches to mass air; LiquidTaeja this last weekend switched to mass battlecruiser viking raven (which is the strongest comp in the game) so if you're on a decent number of bases mining gas its a viable option lategame)
Do you think positioning is why you're losing on 3 bases?
Psht, Don't go mech, keep the bio tank going! Play well and those mech terrans will fall
06/26/2013 12:23 AMPosted by Zerglor
Psht, Don't go mech, keep the bio tank going! Play well and those mech terrans will fall


right thats why flash and fantasy play mech, because bio tank is stronger.........
tbh, mech is not immobile

or at least not any less moblie than marine/tank... it may be a little less than MMM if you dont get a lot of medivacs, but as long as hellbats can be healed both sides will do drops

.

honestly, when it comes to seeing attacks ahead of time in TvT, the best option i find is using widow mines to spot on the attack paths, could score kills, give advanced warning and stall his army

other than that, you need to keep tabs on his movements, through harassment or something, sensor towers work nice as well... worst thing you can do is play blind and suddenly a tank army walks up to your base uncontested

.

also, marine/tank is not better than mech in any way, maybe in WoL but not now

its more expensive on upgrades (you need infantry and vehicle), getting the hellbat gave mech a good mineral dump and mech can transition to BCs easier because of shared armor upgrades with air... i find late game hellion run bys (get BF/servos) is much more devastating than drops

honestly, if you plan to win off bio in TvT, its like TvP, you pretty much have a set timer until your army just isnt effective... unless you just have amazing army control or they are awful with tanks (like your opponent keeps throwing units away)
Marine Tank in WoL was better solely because of the Hellion. Hellion were getting raped asap by Marines/Tank, and then with just tanks, you were screwed. But now... With the Hellbat... it's a different story.

Drop Hellbat help as well of course and shared armor are welcomed, but i feel that the use of the Hellbat instead of the Hellion is what changed the most.
06/25/2013 01:37 PMPosted by abHAT
Pretty much, what analysis is there on positioning in TvT. Like, how should you're tanks be spread out, and where, across 2-3-4 bases? Where are optimal positions to place units to defend a drop, but still have your main meching force in place, and not completely reposition your army? Before an engagement, what is the best way to sense an incoming army, and where should you siege up before an attack? Should you clump up tanks, or spread them far out? I know this is very map dependent, but just give me an example of one map to give me an idea.


i guess i never answered your question

but from a meching players POV

shouldnt really be anything special you can do, usual tank leap frog is the same as mech as it is for marine/tank... should still be able to afford upgrades for your tanks, or you could go with a safer option and get vehicle armor and transition to air before they do (most mech players will rush 2/2 and sit on that for a while, as bio you may have an upgrade advantage but it means nothing if they keep up)

to defend against drops with minimal static D, you will want to have at least the same supply as a drop to defend any non-PF bases... as marine tank that would be 6-8 marines and a viking would equal one drop, should be a given as any build, since hellbat drops or hellion run by are the most likely harass, you will want to have a bunker near the mineral line and try to wall off areas of your base

using tanks, i like to use them in groups of 3-4, that seems to be the magic number where they are threatening, meaning they will 1-shot majority of units that some close enough... hellbats and thors being the only units that require a lot of tank hits to go down

i would say as well an edge you could abuse over a mech player is the lack of AA, they may have less vikings in favor of a larger ground army, tanks cannot push as easily and essentially leave marine vs hellbat where you have a range advantage (or can kite back to the tanks)... so if they push into you they would take a lot of losses if you are careful

if you are looking for the bets ways to see an attack coming, sensor towers are your best short range, widow mines are your best long range scouts... worst thing that could happen to you is just let a mech army walk up to your base, not even pulling scvs will help stop that

do not make marauders under any circumstance in TvT to deal with mech, i dont think they work any better than they did in WoL... tanks still do bonus vs armored and go down easier than marines (1 marauder is always 3 hits, marines take 2 but you also get 2 marines per 2 supply)... if you are good at splitting or forming a concave you should be able to push into tanks with marines, you may want to against Thors but i would say if you get too marauder heavy you may just loose to viking/BC (as i said in an earlier post mech can transition easier, even 0/+3 BCs will take down 3/3 marines no problem)

you could also opt for an extra tech lab starport to make banshee/raven, if you are not able to break his lines on the ground alone, you can at least snipe tanks... if he is making tank/thor it will be harder to get his own ravens out as well (have to choose what to spend your gas on until you get more bases)
TvT Positional analysis: Position your hellbats on top of opposing players workers/army via medivacs.
06/26/2013 11:37 AMPosted by Oldben
do not make marauders under any circumstance in TvT to deal with mech, i dont think they work any better than they did in WoL... tanks still do bonus vs armored and go down easier than marines (1 marauder is always 3 hits, marines take 2 but you also get 2 marines per 2 supply)... if you are good at splitting or forming a concave you should be able to push into tanks with marines, you may want to against Thors but i would say if you get too marauder heavy you may just loose to viking/BC (as i said in an earlier post mech can transition easier, even 0/+3 BCs will take down 3/3 marines no problem)


You MUST have marauders when going bio agasint mech. More hp and doesn't eat as much splash. You should never be running into siege line anyways so just try to catch them out of position. Use drops or something to pull mech out of position.

Most people don't die because of tank position, its usually when you get caught with your pants down unsieged or sieging at the bottom of ramp with no vision. Avoid those kind of things, always lead with Viking or hellion and scan possible flank paths.

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