Possible changes for balance test map

General Discussion
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But this is the same design team who like to make promises, breaks them, and expects us to keep trusting them.

Lmao be more dramatic. The only time they said they were going to make TvP mech a thing was in beta, and that's when experiments and ideas are tried out. As in, nothing they say in beta is a "promise".
08/26/2013 04:48 AMPosted by SpinalZeD
Serisouly? Because you think that a working cloud spell vs WMs would be a better option then investing the gas in ultralisks? Obviously you don't know much about the current ZvT.

Um, I can't quite tell if your serious or trolling, but I'm going to respectfully humor you.

So yes, a working cloud spell vs Widow Mines (or bio, either or really, as long as it is strongly nerfed against mech and it works vs. the Widow Mine/endless bio push and drop fest I'm ok with it) is alot better then investing it into Ultralisks which just get kited endlessly without having gas heavy Infestor support and a huge bank behind it.
Well, last time I checked, Terran were performing superbly and were not in a direct need of any buffs. Moreover, when hellbat's INSANE damage to mineral lines was finally nerfed, it was an overpower that needed to be taken away and that was it (still would have prefered to see bio tag removed), but no, blizzard decided Terran was due a compensation and reduced banshee cloaking cost so Terran could effectively FORCE protoss into robo (cloak banshee + WMs) despite robo units being crap against terran bio (vikings coming from a reactored starport that has reactor for medivacs).

Now we know Terran has the unarguably best mineral dumps (marines, hellbats) and the unarguably best economy booster (mules = 285 free mins) which allows them to keep a healthy bank while still keeping a decent army until midgame. They already don't have to invest on reaper speed or tank siege anymore, and banshee cloak was cut in cost, plus their mineral-only units are pretty good so they can redirect their gas to technology, and an insanely strong, zero-micro, low cost high reward unit (WMs) cost a meagre 25 gas.

Also to be noted, that every race has 5 researches for upgrades. Protoss has 3 on forge, 2 on core; Zerg has 3 on chamber, two on spire; Terran has 3 on armory, 2 on bay. If they get merged, Terran will be the only race that has only 4 upgrades to invest in, instead of 5, and unless every upgrade was risen in cost by 50% it would give them an unfair advantage in economy and time. Also note that the only prerequisite for Terran upgrades past level 1 is armory, which is most certain to be built either way due to hellbats, while for protoss you have to build a twilight council that might not be in your build (150/100) or a TERRIBLY EXPENSIVE 300/200 fleet beacon for air upgrades.

Finally, this would only facilitate mech harassment on a map pool that features thousands of blind spots for drops of WMs and plenty of room for cloak banshees to run around; seriously all the new maps are Terran-favourable with the dark ledges and huge landing zones.
Unarguably my eye. Do you even play Terran?

Mules allow us to catch up with Z & P's stronger macro, and are only "overpowered" in the very late game when we have multiple Orbitals (which remember, cost 600 minerals each) to call down a wave of mules. That means sacrificing map vision/detection though which can be more important at times.

Your upgrade complaint is silly as well. Particularly in the case of Protoss, since shields are shared universally and their other upgrades are also shared among all air & ground units - they don't distinguish between infantry and mechanical air/ground, or melee & missile. Zerg's only universal upgrade would be ground armor in that case, but then again Zerg's all about trading and having a superior economy anyway - they're not outright forced to make the most of every unit because they're largely expendable. Protoss also has the strongest units per supply/resource cost and so it makes sense for them to have to pay a bit more, otherwise warpgate alone would be incredibly OP (and it arguably is, but is offset somewhat by the other race's advantages - that's asymmetrical balance for you.)

Lastly, the banshee "buff" was a complete joke that resulted in virtually no changes except to occasionally revert TvT back to a WoL style banshee rush - Zerg and Protoss can both easily hold off an early banshee with ease and they're still trash in a straight up fight in the mid-late game as they're too expensive and too fragile for direct engagements.
Is really protoss that OP still that only Z and T needs buff? Im a protoss having a hard time against old builds like 1-1-1 still vs terran. The terran part I only like the upgrades for air added again as before in WoL.

Z changes I like alot. Kinda scared for the vipers because they are a really strong unit making making ranged useless AND drawing units to zerg army. Want to see how that plays out.

Pls Blizzard as a protoss: Give us back the highground-warp in and the ability to power buildings from below a hill like before. That change is so easy and makes the fun come back to the race.

Else I love your changes
Hey ToaStie,

I think you're looking for THIS balance thread:

edit: lol wrong thread my mistake

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