Possible changes for balance test map

General Discussion
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Though these are overall good ideas. Please be really careful with these, especially the Terran buff you mentioned. That could make for some serious sudden tech switches, which could be really hard to deal with. Will force both Z and P to be even more ontop of their scouting, especially in lategame.
think about the air mech upgrade change... when a bio terran upgrades his tanks vs zerg he upgraded his vikings to so GG ... you cant play broodlord :D
Dont do the viper change please it will make high templars so much more good against them. Can you please abduct have 10 range so i can use the ability and not get feedbacked instantly. Thank you
Broodlords are pretty much dead anyways. Would like to see a siege tank buff and maybe a MSC modification that was suggested.
08/12/2013 02:29 PMPosted by Zeckarai
Though these are overall good ideas. Please be really careful with these, especially the Terran buff you mentioned. That could make for some serious sudden tech switches, which could be really hard to deal with. Will force both Z and P to be even more ontop of their scouting, especially in lategame.


If you don't notice a Terran building approximately 5 factories/starports, then we have bigger problems to worry about...

08/12/2013 01:50 PMPosted by sceadulord
There's nothing wrong with looking at the other two races but when you intentionally shaft Protoss and not address the problems that needs your attention, while doing kneejerk reactions like removing the Amulet and Vane upgrades, you disgust me sir.


I think they should buff WP speed a little bit so it's more used. Toss might even be competitive in WCS... oh wait, that just happened.
Thoughts:

* Combining Mech upgrades

During the beta, simply having mech upgrades combined ensured that mech was very, very strong. This might be too much, but could be adjusted by increasing upgrade timings.

* Viper energy maxed

This is just too weird. Problems vs feedback, counters mech easily, makes super-strong versus non-ht protoss...weird. Maybe buff the starting energy so they come out more powerful, but not at full energy...

* Overseer speed buff

Yeah, not a problem. Helping them to move with the army instead of constantly dragging behind is cool. I wish the HT would get some sort of similar small speed buff.

* No protoss changes

I'm really tired of protoss all-inning or turtling till they have 2 to 3 high-techs available. Usually it's some combination of HT, Colo, Archon with supporting units.

Can we see some kind of capability for protoss to open TC into gateway-focused armies instead of high-tech with gateway support?

I'd also love for there to be some kind of late-game intermediate-plan for scouting a muta switch. Currently late game muta tech switches can only be countered by throwing down 3 reactionary stargates or having 2 already producing phoenix. It'd be nice for there to be some degree of difference for when you scouted the switch, whether or not you have ht's; archons; or blink stalkers, and how many cannons you have (as opposed to the current situation of 'No phoenix, trololololol' vs 'Phoenix, gg wp').

EDIT: their != there
EDIT2: (as opposed to...)
The overseer - Sure thats not too bad. They do kinda get killed fast late game

Terran Mech buff - Okay great, if you do something to weaken bio lots more players will go mech with a mech buff to support the nerf.

The Viper Buff - Excuse me but are you ****ing Joking!? I know thats not a scientific look at the situation but vipers have no problem getting to full energy quickly. A few evo chambers and they are fine. If you plan on buffing them then you need to buff a counter
(example being) - Bring back high templar energy upgrade so fast vipers can be punished, and or maybe reducing their health so ghosts or vikings can snipe them easier. Vipers clouds are incredibly powerful if used correctly and absolutely change the coarse of a battle. Their grabs earlier will prevent terran and protoss from even coming close to having the time to prepare for the fight and a few strong units picked when you only have a hand full mean when the zerg pushed GG its over.

Please take this serious, normally i think blizzard buffs are pretty thought through and yes i would love to see more mech, but don't go crazy and do something as bad of an idea as max energy starting vipers without making them more expensive or something along those lines, because it is just that; a bad idea.
Looks like there is a typo with the 3rd change. Viper was meant to read Oracle, and Zerg read Protoss. Vipers can already quickly regenerate their energy which makes this change completely senseless - yet Protoss is left with a gimmicky and useless Oracle. The third change should have been about the Oracle not Viper.
David Kim, Nerf Protoss please ! Mothership core and overcharge on nexus is very very imba !

Psi Storm is imba vs terran ! Nerf protoss please !
lol.... Overseer buff will do nothing to help with widow mines mid and late game, are you guys high? They will now just rush to their death faster in front of your army and either trigger widow mines and die, or die from marines.

If you ACTUALLY want to take away the effectiveness of widow mines mid and late game then REMOVE the drilling claws upgrade so you can actually engage them before they burrow and then kill everything that is over top of them.
Can someone enlighten me how a faster overseer will deal with stuff?


^ This please.

It's a nice little buff, but i don't see how it solves the problem they're trying to solve.
lol.... Overseer buff will do nothing to help with widow mines mid and late game, are you guys high? They will now just rush to their death faster in front of your army and either trigger widow mines and die, or die from marines.

If you ACTUALLY want to take away the effectiveness of widow mines mid and late game then REMOVE the drilling claws upgrade so you can actually engage them before they burrow and then kill everything that is over top of them.

Speed is good if you can micro.

I like your username, btw.
lol.... Overseer buff will do nothing to help with widow mines mid and late game, are you guys high? They will now just rush to their death faster in front of your army and either trigger widow mines and die, or die from marines.

If you ACTUALLY want to take away the effectiveness of widow mines mid and late game then REMOVE the drilling claws upgrade so you can actually engage them before they burrow and then kill everything that is over top of them.

Speed is good if you can micro.

I like your username, btw.


Well thanks!

But micro is useless when all of your units are not ranged and those that are trigger widow mines anyway. Decent zergs already used overseers and set them to follow the mutas or an ultra when its late game so I really don't see the point.

If they actually want to help detection, they could just combine overlord speed with detection for all ovies if they really think its that much of a problem.
My opinion.

Overseer change might help a little but the problem isn't that overseers get left behind the army its that they go flying ahead and eat widow mine shots when they get too close and they are Very costly to replace when you need atleast 2-3 every engage unless you want to never kill the mines. Rather if you took the gas cost of making an overseer away and left it at 50 Minerals 0 Gas. Zerg could make wayyy more without affecting their baneling production and this could also make them more useful with contaminate. For example 500 Minerals on Overlords, 250 Minerals for 5 Overseers, 100 Minerals and 100 Gas for Overlord Speed and suddenly you can contaminate 1/2 buildings almost permanently which could completely kill Protoss robo timings or terran stim/ combat shields/ cloaking timings.

Mech ground and air combined is gona see hellbat+bio into mass BC raven, whether or not this is a good thing will depend on how hard it is to catch up in upgrades for Zerg when you are vs'ing 3/3 BC's with 0/0 or 1/0 Corrupters.

-The Viper change is gona make big probably negative changes for Z in ZvP IF HT's are out and the Protoss is not a retard because its gona mean instant feedback every-time 1 shot. Because before a lot of the time they never had full energy but got feedback'd and lost some or most but not all of their health.
-ZvT this will make ground mech completely dead as if it isn't already because the first wave of viprs come and Zerg pushes and wins with 0 waiting time.
-ZvZ this could add something to mass roach/some Hydra battles with blinding cloud however Roach, Hydra/Blinding cloud... is that really all that different from Roach Hydra/Fungal Growth? Same combination different spell.
why cant you do your job right, just once david kim?

mech weak in tvz because of viper/swarmhost ---> buff viper

mech weak in tvp because of immortal, mass warpin, ---> combine upgrades wont change anything

seriously when i read !@#$ like that it makes me lose faith in humanity.
im sick of this !@#$.
this is the day sc2 died for me.

when will these retards in the balance team understand, that tank supply needs to be reduced, tank dmg needs to be buffed. WHEN?

when sc3 is released?

seriously stop working as balance designer for sc2.
even a monkey would be able to balance the game better and give us more options.
08/12/2013 02:50 PMPosted by Tamerlane
Can someone enlighten me how a faster overseer will deal with stuff?


^ This please.

It's a nice little buff, but i don't see how it solves the problem they're trying to solve.

Spam Overseers and do Contaminate fly-bys :D
08/12/2013 03:00 PMPosted by Ezekiel
Spam Overseers and do Contaminate fly-bys :D


You're probably joking; nevertheless, here's the obligatory counter argument:

Overseers cost gas.
08/12/2013 02:29 PMPosted by Zeckarai
That could make for some serious sudden tech switches, which could be really hard to deal with.


Good thing Terran already has the weakest production capabilities. So you don't have to worry about sudden tech switches that take 10 minutes.
where is protoss buff?? HT whit full energy?? zelot whit charge or stalker whit blink??. This is ridiculous
08/12/2013 03:03 PMPosted by Edowyth
Spam Overseers and do Contaminate fly-bys :D


You're probably joking, nevertheless, here's the obligatory counter argument:

Overseers cost gas.

Good golly, you're right!

I must not take this game seriously enough to have noticed. Next you'll tell me that Ultralisks don't hit air units...

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