Possible changes for balance test map

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Dear David Kim,

Just when I thought you couldn't get any dumber....you go and do something like this....

....and TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF (kudos to anyone who gets this reference)

1) One of the biggest problems in TvZ is widow mines and the easy target overseers become when trying to deal with them. This speed buff should hopefully help make it a little more manageable. Good observation on this one, though I personally might have preferred a detection RANGE buff to make dealing with mines a little bit safer. Regardless, this is fantastic.

2) Actually not a bad idea. This would give terrans at least a little more reason to go mech instead of Bio + mine 100% of the time. Anything to convince terran to stray from that garbage once in a while is a good thing to me.

3) Nice for us zergs, but questionable...due to (again) why would terran wanna go mech with vipers being even better? This would be REALLY nice vs. toss who vipers are much more balanced again due to HT's feedback (now can be 1-shotted fresh from the egg with this change!) but not make it too good. What I could argue is giving vipers 100/200 starting energy so they can at least be useful for one spell fresh out the egg.

Moral of the story: Good work, thank you, and I for one will be looking forward to these changes.
LOL that viper buff is so bad.

There was a reason why you didn't combine the upgrades last time....

overseer buff? why not mine nerf? those cost efficient explosives are ruining tvz
LOL that viper buff is so bad.

There was a reason why you didn't combine the upgrades last time....

overseer buff? why not mine nerf? those cost efficient explosives are ruining tvz


But hell, I'll take the overseer buff over nothing :P

....but man.....dem mines.
08/12/2013 04:06 PMPosted by TerranicII
Widow Mines make up part of mech's anti-air (they can be used as static d or charged and burrowed under enemy fliers for a very large burst), and Overseer speed is being buffed to allow Zerg to detect Widow Mines more easily. Technically this constitutes a very weak nerf to mech's anti-air; however, the change is so minor that nobody should try to argue this point and Widow Mines being used in this way would rarely be affected. Thors, Ravens, and Vikings are all powerful alternatives that would not be affected.

I think that the original poster was talking about the buff to vipers which would affect thors, but not sure he was kinda vague.

Imo, if this all went through mechs aa would have a huge buff as Vikings would now have upgrades with mech.

All in all this would be a perfect patch all round. Zergs could use a slight buff to their detection to help out against bio/mine. The viper change will help out against mech, which may be needed after the timings and additional comps that will arrive in tvz. Honestly, not a bad patch for zergs. Those of you afraid of getting you vipers one shot by feedback, I suppose you could do what we had to do to our units in tvp and spend that energy. We ended up having to emp bcs/thors which sucks, but there are solutions out there and on the bright side the change how more + than -.

Mech needs the buff and I swear it was so fun in beta with this change so I'm really hoping they push it through. Hmm mech will def be so much more entertaining especially after the recent banshee change. This really helps a lot of issues mech has in the non-mirrors so good job reconsidering this one bliz.
i gota say when i think of the things that are "too strong" i think if only my overseers.... were faster.... it would be more manageable

hows this for balance. the swarm host does terrible or dominates, terrible design

the viper in your current form makes no sense just instead give it cooldowns making it unfeedbackable because leaving it at full energy ensures they get 1shot by feedbacks (which you can EASILY get since you dont need storm complete to feedback and shut down vipers)

you guys just screwed sc2 from the beta with forcefields and other nonsense just stop it lol
LOL that viper buff is so bad.

There was a reason why you didn't combine the upgrades last time....

overseer buff? why not mine nerf? those cost efficient explosives are ruining tvz

I completely agree....just had to turn off the WCS AM qualifier after seeing apocolypse's widow mine one shot a group of 10+ banelings, It's just wrong IMO. The mine seems like it's going to turn into the new WoL infestor soon.

With that said I'm loving that mech is finally getting some attention, but it could quite possibly need more
Vipers start with full energy..... NO.... JUST NO....
LOL that viper buff is so bad.

There was a reason why you didn't combine the upgrades last time....

overseer buff? why not mine nerf? those cost efficient explosives are ruining tvz

Agree 100%
David Kim's hatred of Protoss strikes again.
Everyone who is complaining about Dayvie's hate for Protoss have to be patient, damn it! They are obviously working on a lot of changes for the Protoss race, considering LoTV is the NEXT expansion. It is likely that these changes are still under development and do not need to be revealed yet.
I don't like the viper buff. Blinding cloud needs to be changed to make it more effective versus some comps and less effective versus mech.

1. Make it reduce range by 4-5. Marines have melee range in it, marauders a range of 2 or melee, while tanks and thors still have enough range to be somewhat effective.

2. Blinding cloud disables certain abilities. These are selectively chosen, in the same way certain attacks are stopped by PDD. I think WM attack should be disabled, perhaps medivac boost and stim, to name a few.
mouz|Vortix's push with mass roach/hydra/viper in pvz is already pretty scary and most toss players died from it. I dont want to imagine this with full energy vipers @@%#%!@@#* this toss army and spamming blinding clouds like a madman.
I dont know why DK wants to buff Viper. It's already fine and would crush mechplay in tvz even more.
Nerf the widow mine's splash dmg, that is where the problem is in tvz is right now!!
#2 Are you seriously considering that?
You can't expect to improve Mech's viability while simultaneously buffing the Viper.

The Viper needs some changes, it's currently WAY too strong vs Mech and borderline useless vs Bio regardless of what energy it starts with.

It is that way because it was designed that way. Its spells need tweaks to how they work to spread out what the Viper is useful for, it's currently far too niche of a unit and that niche is anti-Mech.

Combining Ship/Vehicle upgrades accomplishes one thing really, it makes transitioning into BC/Raven for Mech players much more dangerous in all 3 match ups but doesn't address any of Mech's issues in the early, mid or even mid-late game.

finally a terran player that fully understands the problems of pvz. zerg desperately needs a way to deal with mines. marine mine composition is unstoppable as zerg since most of zerg units are either mele (lings/banes/ultras) or short ranged (roach/muta). so basically mines are the only units in the game that does not have a hard counter. in exchange, terran needs more options since nowdays going mech is an instant loss in mid-late game when vipers come out. both blinding cloud and abduct are super effective against mech and useless against bio (abducting marines or marauders is just wasted energy while blinding cloud does nothing against superfast stimmed units. and not to mention that you can even get ghosts to emp/snipe vipers).
Vipers with full energy is as silly as khayderan amulet. Think about it.
08/12/2013 04:12 PMPosted by yaydog
hmmmmm so terran is op at low levels, and easy to play at high ones. LETS BUFF THE !@#$ OUT OF IT!!!!! good job blizzard

Buffing mech won't change bio.
yes vipers would be great. only need my high templar to start with full energy now and be able to leech energy from my forges . Anybody that thinking thats imba need only be confused about what makes a game fun in comparison to skilled. gg?
The only Zerg buffs which would even help are buffs that help fight widow mines. That said, the fundamental problem is the widow mine, which is far too good.
Although I've supported SC2 since WOL launch, trying to play HOTS ZvT is incredibly demoralizing. It might be time to call it quits and start playing League of Legends like everyone else.

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