What if SC2 had never happened...?

Campaign Discussion
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Forums are being weird at the moment. I tried writing a post twice, but it ended up not going through both times. Now I'm not motivated anymore.

EDIT: Given that this 1 finally went through, there seems to be something wrong with the [quote]ing function. It appears to cause your posts to not go through.
That's why I post stuff from the phone, iPhone keeps the comment "stored", so even when this stuff doesn't upload going back returns me to the full written comment that is ready to be posted.
I actually forgot that you can go back to the last page, and all the stuff you just wrote and tried to post will still be there in the edit box. Oh well. I was too caught up in the moment wondering wtf was going on.
07/28/2017 06:32 AMPosted by JohnnyZeWolf
Personally, I wish the plot and lore of the entire StarCraft series had been different.

For example, instead of taking place on three different planets with the exact same terrain type, Episode I could have been set on a single planet; Chau Sara, Mar Sara, Tarsonis, Antiga, Braxis, Korhal, Umoja, Moria... those would have all been different regions/countries/continents. Heck, the entire game could have taken place on the same planet, which means the Zerg would never make it to Aiur and the Protoss homeworld would remain untouched and unseen - at least, in StarCraft/Brood War.

There would be no higher species uplifting the Protoss. If anything, the Protoss would be the Xel'Naga themselves and would have built their civilisation on their own. The Xel (read: Khalai) would have behaved less like a generic fantasy species with a warrior mentality and more like an actually benevolent and enlightened alien species. As such, they would shun violence and instead rely on their incredibly advanced technology and scientific prowess to defuse conflicts. Sharing none of the scruples of their Xel brethren, the Naga (read: Nerazim) would have gone their own way and created the Zerg, and once their creation had gone out of control and and killed the better part of their tribe, would have vowed to destroy them.

The Zerg would be an actual hivemind. Therefore, there would be no Cerebrate... or rather they would not have a personality of their own and instead would merely be the extension of the Overmind's will. There would be no need for grandiloquent speeches, no emotional outburst and no action taken on a whim.

Kerrigan would be the point-of-view character of the first three campaigns. She would start as a government operative sent to oversee the relocation of the Mar Sara population, grow attached to them and to their marshall Jim Raynor, assist them in their defense against the Zerg as well as their rebellion against the government (which would definitely not be named after the Confederate States of America, because screw that Old South whitewashing). However, she is betrayed by the corrupt leader of the rebellion and former Mar Saran governor Arcturus Mengsk.

Kerrigan would get captured and infested by the Zerg, kill Raynor but by the end of the Zerg campaign would get rescued by Tassadar. Using Protoss implants to neutralise the Zerg corruption, Kerrigan would regain control of herself and assist the Xel in figuring out a way to defeat the Overmind and prevent the Swarm from leaving the planet. They would eventually be joined by the Naga, who reveal their role in creating the Swarm and ultimately sacrifice themselves to bring down their creation.

Unfortunately, it turns out the Naga had underestimated it, as a new Overmind is soon discovered by the Protoss. Having called reinforcements from their homeworld, the Xel Protoss seek to contain the renewed onslaught of the Swarm, but struggle to do so because of their unwillingness to end the Overmind's life. Frustrated, Kerrigan tries to coerce them into doing so but in the process kills a Protoss leader. She is arrested and put in stasis by the Protoss, and they suffer great losses in pacifying the Overmind.

Meanwhile, having successfully overthrown the government and defeated the last pockets of resistance, Arcturus Mengsk unites the Terran factions and launches a large-scale offensive to drive off the alien invaders from the planet. He finds out about the reincarnated Overmind, defeat its Protoss guardians and uses salvaged governmental technology in an attempt to take control of the leaderless Swarm.

In a desperate move, the Protoss free Kerrigan and take off her implants so she can command the Zerg again. However, they soon regret their decision and try to stop her, to no avail. Realising she can no longer trust the Protoss and unwilling to allow Arcturus to control the Swarm, Kerrigan decides to take over the Swarm for herself and end up merging with the reborn Overmind. She repels a last-ditch effort to stop her by Arcturus, his remaining slave broods and the Protoss, but emerges victorious, eliminating Arcturus in the process. As Protoss and Terrans watch, she then takes off the planet with the Swarm and leaves for an unknown destination.

I have yet to imagine how StarCraft II would play out, but suffice to say, it would be completely different. And while I did not mind Amon and the Hybrids, they certainly would not be part of it. Perhaps the United Earth Directorate would be the main antagonist, taking advantage of the unrest on the Terran colony to reclaim it.
Johnny lost me in the very first sentence when he wanted the "entirety" of the story to be different.

I just went no.
07/28/2017 02:49 AMPosted by Fefnir
07/27/2017 11:02 PMPosted by Skehan
Oh boy, do edited SC2 versions count too?

Yes, if they are somewhat related to SC 1 they are welcome

07/27/2017 11:22 PMPosted by RoboticAgent
Wouldn't that mean that the Zerg would ALL have died out?

I don't know! Why do you think that? What's your theory?

My theory is that maybe the zerg would be killed and be put to rest forever. Like, they can't regrow, return, and maybe the protoss become the only enemy.
They won't kill off a race.
Some of my thoughts:

-Tychus and Raynor's adventures after Brood War and before WoL
-Raynor having to be convinced/sensitized to get all mushy and merciful on Kerrigan
-Mengsk having more to do than be a useless tyrant; his first and actual goal was vengeance on the Confederacy

-Amon just being a "rogue" (different scientific opinion; corporations, you know) Xel'Naga which later (during the Aeon of Strife; easily to get toss out of the planet during conflict through deception/kidnapping) made/changed protoss into the Forged (Tal'darim) on the planet Slayn
-the zerg assimilating most of the nagas above Zerus leaving Amon and his/its enterprise to take supremacy over the universal genetic program; no backstabbing, just an accident as in the original game's manual, therefore Amon's luck
-Duran/Narud, Amon's right hand set out from Slayn to interfere with the plague zerg could become if not tempered with. Thus, the hybrid program began due to lack of manpower; the Tal'darim would still have been too few and weak against the might of the Swarm. The hybrid were discovered to be significantly stronger than zerg and protoss, 1:20 or more. So, could Amon's corporative vision be made manifest

-Tychus being captured by the Dominion order forces and locked away->WoL Tychus-Raynor plot
-no prophecies, glimpses of the future
-Duran, through the Moebius Foundation and Valerian reaching out to Raynor to deceive him that he could save Kerrigan by stealing important artifacts in protoss (Khalai and Nerazim; the Tal'darim are under Duran so... no point in wasting material), terran (+pirates, Umoja, Dominion etc.) and zerg thus creating more conflict in the sector while the hybrid program is heavily underway. These artifacts form that contraption that destabilizes Kerrigan's genetic and psionic energy. The Swarm is disoriented and infighting between groups under Broodmothers are seen. Later, Raynor will have to help Kerrigan take the artifact from the Moebius Foundation and restabilize her psionic power to regain control of the Swarm over Amon's

-Zeratul acts as a sort of diplomat (among being a spy and others) as during his galactic travels he discovered Slayn and other Tal'darim planets. The Forged disagree with keeping peace between the three protoss factions and gradually take over mining planets belonging to the other two factions to the point a war between them begins
-during his journeys, Zeratul also discovered the now blooming Zerus (as the creep that remained on it after the zerg left nourished the planet) which over time has given rise to new life forms, made more of minerals than organic matter

-Zeratul informs Kerrigan and Raynor of the Tal'darim threat and about Zerus. Thus, Kerrigan, would first gain control over the new zerusian population and use it to retake the Char broods against Duran's will. It's when the hybrid make themselves known. After defeating Narud the fight continues over the Aiur zerg against Amon's control. She will have to ask the protoss for help as Amon's grasp over the immense zerg broods is too much. Some of the protoss accept while others do not. Therefore the expedition which goes along with Kerrigan to Aiur is smaller than expected. There, the Khala virus is unleashed (as Amon studied protoss on Slayn) and the protoss are disarrayed, ultimately forced to cut their nerve cords. On top of that, the hybrid is made known and even Kerrigan is compelled to retreat
-during the four years of pause between BW and WoL and beyond, the protoss have been developing and constructing an AI race to increase the number of their warriors. By the time of LotV it had been finished
-realizing what the defeat on Aiur meant, all protoss (except for the Tal'darim, of course) united joining Kerrigan's swarms. Until this point, Mengsk's reign had been finished off by Kerrigan and her troops to avoid any unsuspected attacks
-seeing that Aiur was tightly held by Amon's presence, the decision to weaken his/its overall armies was taken and so Slayn became the next target. Zeratul and other protoss learnt that not all Tal'darim were keen on obeying Amon's ruling system. Thus, the Tal'darim were defeated with Alarak's help. This blow made it easier for Aiur to be retaken with quite the casualties on the side of our heroes
-from there, the last step was to directly face Amon on Ulnar. With the hybrid program almost eliminated, the remaining Xel'Naga (Amon and his corporation) had only the Void energies left. And so, they've tempered with the fabric of the universe itself to (depending on what you like/want):
1.~either create a massive black hole which would devour our heroes and the nagas ending the conflict but also forcing the populaces/races of the Koprulu Sector to leave for other planets because of the danger the hole might spur over time
2.~or keeping all or part of our heroes alive with them fighting the nagas and their destructive psionic energies OR the remaining nagas (be it Amon alive or not) escaping through an opened wormhole to maybe unexplored space territory

I didn't go into all details but only through main points.
I will add my HotS edit soon.

Core changes. Kerrigan doesn't steamroll through her opposition and doesn't get reinfested. Is more sympathetic to others.
World Peace would be attained at last.
07/28/2017 04:59 PMPosted by JohnnyZeWolf
How exactly is StarCraft II "WarCraft in Space"?

And how is it any more than StarCraft/Brood War?

Are you still seriously asking that question after the madness that was the whole Amon plot line?


JZW pls.
-Raynor having to be convinced/sensitized to get all mushy and merciful on Kerrigan

That's basically what Zeratul did with the Ihan crystal, wasn't it?

Of course, it would have been nice to make it clearer that that's what Zeratul was doing: Making Raynor question his vow to see Kerrigan dead for killing Fenix.
When you think about it...

Zeratul's persuasion was based on a lie constructed by Ouros. Even IUD is a lie.
They didn't need Kerrigan alive. They needed Amon dead.

And to loosely quote Togetic from SC2 forum.

Everything from Vanilla to Epilogue was just a Xel'Naga foreplay that culminated when squid ncalled Ouros got his way and put his energy tentacles inside Kerrigan. Which was something prudent squid called Amon wanted to prevent all the time, because he hated sex.

Original comment

07/30/2017 01:32 AMPosted by Skehan
They won't kill off a race.

Makes sense. Most likely that because of the infested planets before the sector.
Oh, and did I forget Kerrigan, who leads a huge zerg swarm? They could regrow anywhere then come straight back again to the sector...
07/30/2017 09:48 AMPosted by Paviel
Of course, it would have been nice to make it clearer that that's what Zeratul was doing: Making Raynor question his vow to see Kerrigan dead for killing Fenix.

Probably him thinking about it for more than ten seconds.

Besides, he sure did not mind rescuing Alexei Stukov, who did not need to become infested and brainwashed to be a heartless tyrant.
I'll admit, not every idea in StarCraft 2 was terrible. For example, the music was great, particularly the Wings of Liberty soundtrack. I once wrote out, in the StarCraft 2 forums, what I would have done for StarCraft 2. First I would have kept it visually dark, grungy, and less colourful and cartoonish looking. Then from there, in a nutshell:

I would have had 3 campaigns for each race:

Terran 1 - Raynor building up his forces, making connections/friends, and in general, exploring terran space in the Koprulu Sector. World building is key to any fantasy story. You could introduce Swann, Tychus, Tosh, Horner, Mira Han and Orlan, UED survivors/deserters. Traveling around in the Hyperion could also have a Firefly feel.

Terran 2 - Kerrigan left some zerg hives on Moria to mix things up there. You take control of a medium sized guild on Moria, and let the political intrigue begin. Throw in some betrayal and Tywin Lannister-like guild-master character, and you could have quite the story (and world building on a prominent planet) on and around Moria.

Terran 3 - Would follow Valerian and his crew/friends around the Koprulu Sector (introducing even more characters than Raynor and his campaign). The Dominion is beaten down by the UED and Kerrigan's swarm, and Arcturas is an ambitious madman still, who thinks he's top dog. He's bullying smaller factions/planets around, like the newly recolonized Chau Sara and Mar Sara, and trying to pressure bigger factions/planets like Brontes and Dylar. Antiga Prime could still be loyal. Valerian could be working with allies on the still-independent Umoja, more UED survivors, and others, and building himself up to be the better emperor, while navigating his father's madness and cruelty. Think Prince Rhaegar and King Aerys II for those who've read those books

Zerg 1 - Abathur bringing in new units for the swarm, working from Char, for Kerrigan. Again, exploring the Koprulu Sector, both terran space and zerg (undiscovered space). Could have an exploration-type of reel. Did I mention world building? StarCraft 2 really lacked world building, and if you doubt that, how many character and place names can you name in this apparently huge galaxy and empire of the Dominion, with billions.

Zerg 2 - Introducing Zagara, the new second in command to the Swarm. There could be flashbacks of how Kerrigan killed the cerebrate she had kept for her second (basically her brother, you the player from SC1 and Brood War). Zagara could introduce us to other queens and brood mothers, ravage a terran world, and maybe go on a mission to explore the distant Zerus, introducing Dehaka. I didn't really like or dislike the primal zerg, but I do like Dehaka. Duran could make an appearance, and Kerrigan and her forces could be tracking him.

Zerg 3 - There could be a war on a new planet with all 3 races on it. It's about stopping Duran and the hybrids. He could be alone, trying to avenge the Xel'naga who were killed by the Overmind. Or there could be a few Xel'naga descendants of some survivors of the Overmind's attack. Zeratul could be here, it could appear that he dies, and Kerrigans forces might look victorious, but then we find out again that Duran has hybrids elsewhere too.

Protoss 1 - Rebuilding on Shakuras. We could see many different cities, and there could be a small civil war that breaks out due this time to a pissed off dark templar. Artanis was a praetor in Brood War, and perhaps now the new executor after the death of the last one (you the player in StarCraft 1 and Brood War). I good place for your character/the executor to have died was at the battle where Zeratul killed Raszagal the Matriarch. We could meet many new protoss characters, some rivals to Artanis, others just allies. Vorazun, Urun, and Kaldalis.

Protoss 2 - Another exploration-type campaign, this time in Protoss space, with a new protoss commander, or praetor. Ruins, and some hints to Duran and the hybrids. Maybe some successful campaigns against zerg, and Duran. Of course, you need many characters for good character development and world building. Alarak and his rise to the High Lord of the Tal'darim could take place here, including a huge defeat towards Duran and the hybrids.

Protoss 3 - The crusade for Aiur. This could be a long and drawn out campaign. We meet protoss survivors, including some from Fenix's forces. Perhaps there's one last cerebrate on Aiur, and the protoss are actually forced to come to some agreement/compromise, as Kerrigan is the bigger threat to both the protoss and this cerebrate. And Zeratul makes a comeback in a grand and epic way. He would represent the dark templar who choose to come to Aiur, while the new matriarch remains on Shakuras. Aiur should have many more cities, ruins, and territories to explore.
07/30/2017 05:16 PMPosted by Wolf
World building is key to any fantasy story.

Not if there is too much of it and it does not make its way into the actual game.

Case in point: the original StarCraft.

StarCraft 2 really lacked world building

It had plenty of it, actually. Much more in fact than its predecessors. I mean, you learn more about Terran society in Wings of Liberty alone than you ever did with Rebel Yell and The Iron Fist combined.

Of course, you could always argue that Blizzard did not deliver enough in regard to certain aspects of the lore or focused too much on others, but you cannot really deny the sheer amount of world-building contained in the StarCraft II games.

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